The necessity/importance of your primary rope contacting the ground?

[Zebco Kid]

Hello All,

On a prior inquiry, I asked about switching from SRS to MRS. Some of the responses talked about connecting the tail of your rope to the lead end, creating a continuous loop. This practice would allow one to have "another" rope available for MRS.

My question is whether it's bad form, dangerous form, discouraged, etc. to not have your primary rope touching the ground?

Thank you.

 

[islandarb]

Hello All,

On a prior inquiry, I asked about switching from SRS to MRS. Some of the responses talked about connecting the tail of your rope to the lead end, creating a continuous loop. This practice would allow one to have "another" rope available for MRS.

My question is whether it's bad form, dangerous form, discouraged, etc. to not have your primary rope touching the ground?

Thank you.

Sir as a working arborist, or a recreational climber, one must at all times have egress to the ground. In case of injury or attack. It is a sensible thing to have.

 

[Zebco Kid]

Thank you. Enough said. Just checking.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

My SOP is to strip out about 20' of extra rope when I tie off. this allows me to to minor deviations from a vertical climb. During my route planning before ascent I consider doing any redi's and add some extra tail if needed.

Doing a Rope Check with SRT is so easy

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Sir as a working arborist, or a recreational climber, one must at all times have egress to the ground. In case of injury or attack. It is a sensible thing to have.

I’ve observed arborists who fail to consider this in their work plan and while they don’t plummet to the ground, they end up taking 30 extra minutes of everyone’s time to mitigate the problem.

You put it perfectly- it’s a sensible thing to have!

 

[Shadowscape]

When your rope doesn't reach the ground and you didn't tie a stopper knot in the end:

Nice of him to record it for us though.

 

[kludge]

If I understand what you are asking, I do use this technique on occasion, knowing that I have removed my ability to contact the ground. I do this as a working arborist not as a rec climber, and it tends to occur when I realize I need to make it out onto branches to clean something up that I originally had not planned on doing. This is not my preferred method. I usually run another climb line if I have planned my moves correctly. As a rec climber I think you will probably be able to get around a tree while always maintaining access to the ground if you want to. You probably don’t have production pressures or the drive to access branches you did not initially plan for.

And I agree with islandarb, it is a sensible thing to do to maintain access to the ground without having to pull a second system from your tail first.

 

[Brocky]

Just carry a bunch of runners and girth hitch a ladder to the ground, don’t over think it.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

I bet a few arborists here have pulled up the tail end of their rope when making non-rigged cuts in the tree.

Oh there’s definitely a time and place for that too- suspended in two tie in points above a hung up tree and making the release cut, both tails coiled up and stashed above the action.

 

[DSMc]

Just carry a bunch of runners and girth hitch a ladder to the ground, don’t over think it.

Was that a joke? If not, I'd like to see you do that while swatting at angry bees or wasps. Not my idea of a reasonable plan.

There are so many better options for secondary attachments than using the tail of your climbing line. Taking the time before entering the tree to plan your moves is well worth doing.

 

[evo]

Hello All, On a prior inquiry, I asked about switching from SRS to MRS. Some of the responses talked about connecting the tail of your rope to the lead end, creating a continuous loop. This practice would allow one to have "another" rope available for MRS. My question is whether it's bad form, dangerous form, discouraged, etc. to not have your primary rope touching the ground? Thank you.

Yes, yes and yes. But.......
Whenever you don't have enough rope to get to the ground in one 'pitch' or whatever rock climbers call it you are taking a huge risk. It's common here though on our tall conifers. I avoid not having a 100% bail out but many times this isn't practical with out 200' trees. Every time though it is a calculated risk and a balance between many factors.
Its common here to shoot a based tied SRT line 100' up and bring up a double rope that is 100-150-200' and get to the top with that upon switching over.
Dragging 200'+ of rope tail around, and changing it's path can get tiring right quick.

 

[Shadowscape]

Somewhere I have a photograph of me on a one man operated reeve system that I built to trolley over power lines. As I did not want any ropes dragging on the live power lines I had around 700' of climb lines coiled up on my harness, along with a 372 saw. Makes for a load hanging on your saddle. This coming week I will see if I can find that photo and post a copy of it.

 

[Shadowscape]

@Tom Dunlap
Hey, it's midnight. Go to bed.

 

[Brocky]

Was that a joke? If not, I'd like to see you do that while swatting at angry bees or wasps. Not my idea of a reasonable plan.

There are so many better options for secondary attachments than using the tail of your climbing line. Taking the time before entering the tree to plan your moves is well worth doing.

Yes.

 

[Zebco Kid]

DSMc,

You wrote, "There are so many better options for secondary attachments than using the tail of your climbing line. Taking the time before entering the tree to plan your moves is well worth doing."

Do you mind listing a few...for the fun of it?

Thank you.

David

 

[DSMc]

Sure. Two that I use regularly are my long lanyard and/or the DMM Captain Hook with its own line. Either one can be deployed quickly and when coupled with your primary system will spread loads, increase stability and reach potential within the canopy.

If it is warranted, I will also set a second line from the ground. With some trees' structure, doing so from the ground is so much easier and safer than trying to set another suspension point while in the tree.

You can accomplish a lot with a single line, but when that becomes inadequate it is far better to set a separate and independent support line, or two, than to jeopardize ground accessibility by using the tail of your primary climbing line.

 

[Shadowscape]

I always, always take along a long lanyard that reaches the ground for 90% of the trees I'm in. Use it mostly for cinching the stem as a second anchor when cutting and is attached to a second bridge. It is on a Zillion, so I can use it for a mechanical friction hitch or a descender if need be. Although it is not rated for that use, it works out well for my weight.
I also carry a Captains Hook with the same Zillion set up quite often when aloft for moving about where my tie in point won't let me go. It too can reach the ground most of the time.
Firm believer in being able to get to the ground at any given time should I need to do so, and having various options to get there should one not be available.

 

[Zebco Kid]

You guys (and women) are the best. I’m so grateful for your hospitality and generosity.

Thank you.

 

[moss]

As mentioned for very tall trees it is not practical and even potentially dangerous to have line all the way to the ground all the time. It is very easy to get the tail of your rope hung up in tall and complicated trees. It's all about situational awareness, following a "strict rule" could get you in trouble. Be flexible, adjust, do what makes the most sense for the situation you're in.

You always want a plan to get to the ground quickly, it may not involve having a line in place to the ground.

I don't like creating a loop with the tail of my main climbing line, whether as a pull down or for any other reason. If I think I'm going to need it I carry 80' of 7mm line in a small bag on the back of my harness for a separate pulldown. Loops get hung up, "Let your tail hang free", I think that's on the New Hampshire license plate, right?
-AJ

 

[moss]

It would be interesting to do a "wasp escape drill" that involves a re-pitch to get out of the tree while under attack. A re-pitch under duress could potentially be done very quickly and smoothly with the right setups. Food for thought.
-AJ