The Hobart Oak: How far would YOU go?

NickfromWI

NickfromWI

Participating member
Location
Los Angeles, CA
How far would you go to save a tree? Check this out: Hobart Oak Pictures If you click on the individual pictures, it will give a short explanation of what you're looking at.

This tree, a Coastal Live Oak, fell in last years HEAVY (30 days straight) SoCal rain. The property owner's wife had just died in the week prior to the tree falling. He didn't want to cut it down, but all the tree guys he spoke to didn't give him much choice.

Enter humanity. The neighbors on either side of him. One willing to tolerate a newly heaved driveway. The other an engineer with wood-working friends. They came up with a plan. The tree still "stands" a year later. The owner, an elderly man, is quite happy with it.

So, tell me what you think. I have a feeling that upon stepping onto the property the first time, you woulda said to get rid of it. But after hearing what was behind the scenes, the tree hugger in me LOVES that THIS is how it played out.

What kind of chance do you give this tree?
If it DOES have termites, what should/can be done about it?
If the tree falls further, there are no targets to speak of, unless it somehow rolls into the house. Any other reason to get rid of it?

The neighbor told me they spent about $5,000 after it was all said and done.

I'd like to hear what y'all think of it. I'm hoping to climb her later in the summer!

love
nick
 
Great presentation!

I think it's great when people go the extra mile to keep a tree alive.

Was that a work in progress? I would think the jacks would be replaced by solid pieces of wood and stored.

I couldn't tell if it was anchored to the ground or not but it might be to great advantage if it were. It may roll like you said and maybe into the street.

Those arborist did some nice looking wood work. You ought to send your photos to a mag.

Dan
 
[ QUOTE ]
Great presentation!

I think it's great when people go the extra mile to keep a tree alive.

Was that a work in progress? I would think the jacks would be replaced by solid pieces of wood and stored.

I couldn't tell if it was anchored to the ground or not but it might be to great advantage if it were. It may roll like you said and maybe into the street.

Those arborist did some nice looking wood work. You ought to send your photos to a mag.

Dan

[/ QUOTE ]

Work in progress? All trees are! Actually, this is the finished product. The jacks are part of it. They opted to leave them in for the easy option of future adjustment, if necessary.

Magazine? Good idea. Who should I share this with?

Those arborists were "just" the neighbors! They did it all their own!

Not anchored to the ground.

love
nick
 
Where is the line drawn in tree dignity? I suppose everybody has their own definition of where the line is drawn.

Another problem of a contractor doing that could be seen as milking the account, you could actually be discredited for such actions and if a bunch of neibs costs ended up $5000 then imagine what the cost would have been for a pro.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous and it looks like an abomination in the yard. But hey, art is like that.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Work in progress? All trees are! Actually, this is the finished product. The jacks are part of it. They opted to leave them in for the easy option of future adjustment, if necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think most hydraulic jacks leak down slowly. That tree does look real likely to be unstable. It's a shame it's not further away from any targets.

Dan

ArborAge- Editor John Kmitta, Jkmitta@m2media360.com

Tree Services- David Cassidy, Editor, dcassidy@treeservicesmagazine.com
 
I see nothing undignified about the retention of old and loved trees. We are often too quick to put tradional asthetic values upon a tree that does not conform to our own often ridgid ones. One of the reasons i love old Abominations like this is the charactor they seem to posess . I hope it gives it's caring custodians many more years, epecially after the time, effort and cost invested. Most of us myself included would simply have put a tick in the fell box at first sight. Maybe it is us that have the wrong idea.
 
What an ecouraging site!!!

How many times have all of us seen that exact same tree in thw woods, still living years after it tipped over? I know that I see them all of the time when I'm hiking.

When I've visited the UK I've seen many ancient trees that are propped in various ways. That is what should be done when possible. Look at all of the money being spent on old hot rods and restored cars. Is the expense any less important trying to extend the life of a grand tree? I think it is a great way to spend money if the people have it.

That would be the perfect article for Tree Care Industry magazine. Check out the link on the right. They pay quite well for articles.
 
I've contacted the right people at TCI Magazine. I'll see if I can print up a decent article in a few days here.

Dan, what in the pictures make it look unstable? The tree is rock solid right now.

Ekka...ridiculous? I think it's quite grand!

love
nick
 
Its good, But I would do away with the hydraulic bottle jacks, they do tend to leak down as metioned, they also look unsightly. Someone could do something more artistic for the supports.
 
I also agree that it's great that all concerned came together in what looks to tbe a successful attempt to save the tree.

I felt guilty about charging $500 to partially right a 120 yr old fallen lilac, of all things, a couple years ago. I tried winching it back up off a ground anchor that I'd fashioned out of rebar encased in cement, which broke because I didnt let it cure long enough and/or use fast set concrete and a hardener. So I jacked it up as best I could, installed two 4x4 braces, crown reduced it, and collected the $....
 
Using screw jacks would be much nicer and more sturdy.

Take a look:

http://tinyurl.com/equd9

Using the power of inclined planes HUGE loads can be lifted easily. It would be easy enough to drill through the vertical pylon, insert a pin, then drop the bottle jack. Then the screw jack and plates could be installed.

I'd be a bit concerned that some knucklhead would come along and let the jacks down. All it takes is a pair of pliers. On some bottle jacks the T screw can be tapped with a hammer to let it down.
 
Thumbs up I'm with Tom, When they fall in the woods they live on to become vary interesting and great walk on trees. We can't have that in the "city" god forbid a crutch under a tree, an uneven crown, what cool neighbors and home owner to preserve it . . . I agree on anchoring to the ground some how, just in case the right wind comes along. Hope TCI picks it up for you
 
Such efforts made to save this tree from being removed is highly commendable, given the age and grand history such an organism must have endured/encountered while growing to that stature. It really is unfortuneate there are residential targets creating liabilities, thus creating a need for artificial support as the tree would more than likely survive in that state, as they do in the forests the world over.

As far as the methods of support...? Leave it up to an engineer to use hydraulic props. Seriously... prop it up and then build discreet support posts out of natural/weathered wood: Live Oak limbs from another tree which couldn't be saved perhaps. From a distance you wouldn't even be able to notice the support beams if they were of natural wood from the same species. And up close, well the whole tree would remain a living testament to the enduring Oak.

Ian
 
Nick, glad you got in touch with tci. If they'll print my crap, for sure they can use a cool story like that. /forum/images/graemlins/coolsun.gif
If you want a draft reviewed, I'll do it in exchange for some splicing work.

You won't get rich, but some of your expense of writing will be covered.

That tree still has plenty of dignity to my eyes, Eric. As long as the engineering is solid (I like Ian's idea best)and all parties sign off on it, great!

Termites are not an issue if they are the deadwood-eating kind (as most in the usa are). You're not too heavy, so have fun climbing it.

Lucky the owner did not listen to the "tree men" who said it had to go. They did not do our profession proud. The old guy had just lost his wife, and they wanted to kill his tree to boot. That ain't arboriculture, but good propping is. /forum/images/graemlins/icon14.gif
 
i wouldnt say they they didnt do our profession proud, most people would rather pay to remove it than "try" and save it. i think its great but few shell out that kind of dough.
 
This is a great story and tree. My 2 cents would be to install screw jacks for safety and then encase them in a wood siding to hide the jack. Give the support wood a nice finish with an oil base stain and finsih the job by driving 3 foot galvanized threaded rods with screw caps into the ground for stability and placement.

Hope for the best.
 
Well, I suppose I'm spoilt.

In a country that basically wasn't settled till around 1850 ( <font color="blue"> link </font> ) we dont have too many geriatrics to care for.

Around here in Brisbane I cant really even think of one ... except the Human type.

So looking at saving something like that seems preposterous. I mean, even our architecture doesn't look that old!

Now, what's the address of that tree so I can mail some aussie termites over to finish the job /forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]


Dan, what in the pictures make it look unstable? The tree is rock solid right now.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it is an illusion that this tree is rock solid now. It is rock solid to vertical loads only.

The pillars can take huge compression loads but with a sideways load they could easily topple over. This tree has a large 'sail' and a good wind from the wrong direction may put it flat on the ground and break more of the already compromised root system.

I believe guying would add a lot of needed resistance to side loading from wind.

Remember the California freeways and how they toppled in the earthquake? The reinforced cement had tremendous compression strength.....but collapsed under side loading and people died.
 
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