Starving arborist

So, you did have payment terms and they are living up to them.
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Contractors can be the worst if you let them. They pay the suppliers they have to and string along the ones they can. It's their cash flow management strategy.

Most get 35% up front to begin a project, then another 35% during the project then the balance with any adjustments upon completion or within a term agreed upon in the contract.

With that being said talk to them about their cash flow, did they budget for this expense at this time? Or did the figure they could use the initial deposit for material and other prep costs while holding you at bay until they get the final payment? Meet with the ones that use you regularly to discuss their estimating for such expenses and the timing of the work. If they were spit-balling the costs for tree work without any hard numbers then they may have underestimated and will put added pressure on you to meet their inexpert evaluation. Go back over your contractor list and call them up, ask if they have projects they are estimating and if you could assist in pricing the tree work needed. Of course you'll get a written commitment up front for you if they get the job. This way you can identify what really needs to be done instead of coming in after and finding otherwise.
 
"I don't have written contracts as I'm not really a businessman."

Bevin, I'd respectfully beg to differ. You're providing a professional service for compensation. That makes you a businessman.

A well structured contract provides benefits not just to you, but to your clients as well, by taking every definable task on the job, from locating the utilities, to writing the check for payment, and assigning them either to the client or the contractor. Everyone then knows exactly what's expected of them and when, and what they're getting out of the arrangement.

Once a client has signed a well written and comprehensive contract, my experience is that they're much less likely to default upon its terms. Additionally your contract is much more enforceable in the event of a default, than a verbal "he-said/she-said"

I have yet to have a client balk at hiring me because of my proposal/contract. They generally appreciate that everything about the job is defined and that everyone knows the scope of their role in the transaction.
 
I just want to climb and top down trees. If there was pruning I'd be right into that too. Everything you say is good advice and I will try and incorporate all of it. No choice. If you've read my tree skills comments I'm totally into it. The business is just a tool to allow me to do it. I'd do it for free if I could. Looks like I've been working for free for too long. I've mostly got everything I need in life, even a bit extra. Now I need to create some free time to enjoy it. I've always seen the possibility of working less and making more, a boom economy would be the time to do that. Could spin the wheels of working at cost til I die broke or live it up right now. Sounds like this is the summer for a trip to the cottage finally after five years without seeing it. Business scmissness.

I really do appreciate the support and advice.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My unique problem is these are their second home so I can't go bang on their door and play the heavy.

[/ QUOTE ]

People with two homes have absolutely no reason to put you in a predicament like that. Thanks for the insight into the tree business.
 
A lot of them inherited those properties. Now they're turning them into the family castle that sits empty. They have to call all the cousins to collect $50 from each one to pay my bill.

Even the staff at a tree company thinks the grass looks greener at the top. I'd have more surplus money with a part-time job and charging what I'm worth cherry picking the jobs I liked. Once you got an employee you got to keep them working or they move on so full-time it is. Believe it or not I do it for my adopted dumped on the side of the highway dog. She can't be left alone so I can't get a job, don't really want one anyway and she's great at tree work. She controls people and animals coming into the work zone and it isn't even like work with her there.

I'm not really starving. Shopping in a small village they let me charge for groceries. Today is dentist day too. Oh yeah. Keep trying to get the gas but they're tight with that.
 
Before doing the work, tell them to collect the money from the cousins and pay as a refundable deposit. You could set up an escrow account for this purpose. What do these people do for a living? I would think that they are accustomed to business practices and discussions of money and payment processes. Have a frank discussion on the payment and how it is to be made. You don't have to play the heavy or sound desperate. This is just business and I'm sure they are used to it. Obtain their home address and contact info so you're not twisting in the wind.

Just to put a different perspective on it. By having the shopkeepers and professionals in your town extend credit to you they are now reliant to pay their expenses on your cash flow. While you may be good for it, they then are put into a position of also becoming part of your collections process. They're generosity is what may be keeping you from starving but, what about them and their employees? Just a thought.

BTW, you have a contract but no evidence of that unless it's witnessed or written.
 
I'd like a few custom disclaimers on the contract too. I get their address and have invoices in the truck. Thing is my info has been put in a selection of five different notebooks in no particular order. Something else to improve for this season. I say that every year. Argh.
 
Get a binder with pages for customer information forms where you'll have to collect all the necessary information when the call comes in. From this you can then fill out the basic info on the estimate form prior to going to the appt. When you arrive you'll appear more organized as you can then focus on the details of the job at hand.

Have your day planner incorporated into the binder so you can then note the time and date of the appt. There are plenty of great paper based organization systems that will help you immensely. Of course there are the programs for this but that may not suit your style or comfort level.
 
Ok, I'm new to the forum and I've chirped in here and there with a suggestion but here's my take.
1. The paperwork bit is easy, if you're a sole trader, suck it up and get on with it.
2.all this talk about programmes, binders apps etc, ever heard of a diary?
Page a day, get a call for an appointment, put it in the diary, look at it first thing and there it is. You get a call saying yes can do it, while they're on the phone book it in, job done.
3. If you truly wanted just to climb etc you'd work for someone else, you don't do you? You want to do your own thing.
Errr that's it.
 
I think you're missing the point here Stump. A diary is great but lacks the ability to organize information for you in a way that makes it accessible readily by the easiest way possible. In order to make that happen a system to organize your info is necessary. Job sites are different address than the billing address adding another level of information that needs to be sought out. Doing a single diary requires you to have to go back through it by date to find the original information if a follow up call is needed to either confirm the job or collect on payment. Imagine you need to call customer Smith re: the quote you gave him. Do you remember the date of the quote or the customer name? Now the work is done, and as in Boreality's case, the client isn't at the job site but a couple hours or more away. The invoice is sent and you wait for payment. Once again, do you remember the customer name or the date in order to pull out the information you need to follow up for payment?

When I was selling custom corporate training the consultant I worked for implemented a system that while at first blush seemed complicated turned out to be extremely good at streamlining the process of client contact and making it much more effective and easy. Once I had it set up and forced myself to use it, I was much better able to organize my time, keep track of my clients and where things were in the sales process. Before that I used a something like you suggest only to find I had to be constantly flipping through my diary to find the entry with the info I needed.

There are a multitude of software packages that automate it and some find much easier to use than a paper based one. That's why it was mentioned. The binder is in effect, your diary, just instead of a blank page with only the date as a key it includes forms that give you the client's name as the key.
 
I haven't read the last couple posts as I want to say what the heck was I worried about. Got my tooth fixed yesterday and had a blast joking with the best dentist ever and I suddenly have a couple of surplus thousands as the cheques rolled in today with one day to spare before the hammer came down. Funny world. Keep the faith.
 
OK read the other post more motivation and good info thanks again. I'd love to be the lead climber/trainer/sales guy but... I don't do well with work place politics. I love where I live and that's a long way from anybodies base and if any of these guys were like Aspen, Heartwood, Limbwalker, TCI, ArborX, Daniel etc. there's lots of you on here, I'd be your man if you'd take me. But I'm not leaving paradise and I'm not going anywhere without my dog. Australia and NZ look good, there's a whole world out there but it's really nice here just have to manage this show better.
 
If I can't get rich cutting trees then I'm friggen out of here!
Said no treebuzzer ever.

I'm just thankful I don't have to work with douchebags.
Keep your chin up canucker!
 
And the cherry on top was I scored a drunk fired competitors newish bull rope and bag. And his money from his screwed up job. Pretty good day and it's not over yet. I don't feel bad he's the beat any quote by 25% guy.
 
I'm sort of curious about one thing. Someone mentioned the contractors getting paid in thirds for a project (and the same I've encountered with house painters). Is there ever discussion about possibly requiring 50% up front and 50% upon completion for tree services? Or even 40-60.

I would not think that would be considered entirely unreasonable. Maybe fodder for TCIA and ISA and other professional organizations to discuss as a best practice. May have a drop in biz because the sleazeballs fade away but that could free you up for cultivating good customers.

While a verbal agreement is technically enforceable, I subscribe to the philosophy of movie magnate Samuel Goldwyn who said, "A verbal contract ain't worth the paper it's written on."
 
Construction contractors break up the payment to minimize their out of pocket expenses over the duration of a project for materials and labor. If they didn't then there would be a time value to their cost that would need to be accounted for in the estimate increasing the bid price.

We don't unless it's a job where there is a material cost and a longer time frame then say our normal pay period. However, it is entirely within the realm of sensibility to ask for a deposit upfront to ensure a commitment to the work.
 
When one person is the full meal deal the desk work needs to be as streamlined as possible. I feel all my invoice, payroll and even sales time is done on my time off. Just finished a hot day hanging on the top off a pole broken up with another tree even bigger and I get these phone calls to drive over and pick up the cheque. Every one of them drives past my house every day (drop box) but I get a couple messages I don't return because I'm so offended I don't know what to say then I catch them a year or two later and explain it in person. I really need some phone skills. It's another catch 22. Get someone answering the phone = you are doing more sales + more sales = second crew = more equipment = mechanic = second washroom and so on.

The point I was meaning to write about is if anything means more time spent on non climbing I don't want to go that route. I need simple efficiency for a simple man.
 
@Boreality : Nope, no relation to ArchDruid, it's just me and my two big cats (my familiars).

@Treehumper : that's what I was thinking, that once someone has made that financial commitment, they are really committed. It also helps prove in small claims that they understood they were supposed to pay you, even if you haven't got a written agreement.
 
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