SRT or SRWP?

Cool.
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Just wanted to make sure I didn't unintentionally piss in your Cheerios!
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Tony
 
Again wouldn't fixed rope or line positioning system work to explain SRT? And does anyone else I think classifying our systems as Arborist systems would help separate us from other disciplines that need a second line as a backup?
 
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...And does anyone else I think classifying our systems as Arborist systems would help separate us from other disciplines that need a second line as a backup?

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I'm thinking name changes and terminology aren't the most effective way to prevent high angle industry rope use rules from being imposed. If challenged by regulators the arboriculture industry needs to come up with good data and rationales for current rope safety practices.

For example is there available data on how many tree workers have been seriously injured in say the last ten years because of gear/rope/anchor failure? DRT or SRT? If the data was available the next step would be to look at the cause of each failure and determine if a second line connection would've prevented an accident. And whether a second line could've been implemented per incident.

If it ain't broken I don't think regulators want to fix it. Regulations are usually imposed as a result of a pattern of incidents that reveal a safety problem. Is there a rope safety problem that needs fixing in the arboriculture industry? Or to put it another way... is there any there there?

With all this worrying about regulation it's ironic that single/stationary/whatever rope technique using distributed TIPs is making tree climbing much safer right out of the box. Is there any other high angle industrial climbing discipline that uses distributed TIPs the way SRT tree work climbers are?
-AJ
 
Did not read all of this thread so I apologize if I have overlooked or reiterate what some others have already said.

I do think it is important to stick with terms we have been using for some time to avoid the confusion or the huge problem of re-educating everybody. Possibly we can find further defining points within our already used acronyms. SRT, could =, secured (non-moving, or even as was mentioned, static or stationary) rope technique. This would let everyone know that the technique being used involves a line that has been anchored in an approved way such that it does not move when the climber/worker moves. If it had to be renamed, maybe calling it ART, or anchored rope technique would help in elucidating the meaning. DdRT would obviously be dynamic, doubled or draped rope technique. If it had to be changed, maybe RRT or running rope technique would work. Or, to simplify things even more NART (or, non-anchored rope technique). Maybe, these additional names, or acronyms could be placed alongside the traditional ones in parenthesis, such as SRT (ART) to help facilitate disambiguity or re-education. As someone already said, this disambiguation is not for the climbers themselves, I hope that we all know what kind of system we are climbing on and the unique set of hazards each of these systems entail.

I don't think that SRWP makes any real sense, basically, for the same reasons that Kevin made plain. We are often not in a working position. To me, being in a working position means that we are lanyarded in, hence the name given to the flip line= work positioning lanyard.

Finally, we all know that, generally, we are climbing on or along, or with, one rope. So really, SRT can be a misnomer. We also are aware that in SRT configurations (the basal anchor), the rope can be doubled. So would this be a DdRT in SRT? Surely not, not unless we must be incorrigible literalists. This leads me to what I meant by "finally" at the beginning of this overlong paragraph: it is not so much a matter of nomenclature. It is a matter of cataloging and defining known and accepted techniques. This will and should entail some naming or defining but shouldn't have to involve renaming. It is more important that those entities outside of the climbing circle know that these techniques have been studied and have been approved by governing bodies within the field. I for one switch from SRT to DdRT mid-climb, and, sometimes, back again. It is not important how many times I do change but that when I do, that I am using a known technique that has been approved as one of the over all safest techniques in arboriculture.
 
I'm wondering just how many other possible techniques there are in use.

We've got a stationary anchor system (SRT, etc...) in which the line does not move.

We've got a moving anchor system (DdRT) in which the anchor moves with the climber.

I still think it's possible to substitute "Single" with "Static or Stationary", since it's clear that there is a fixed, remote anchor, and the line does not move. We can also easily substitute "Doubled" with "Dynamic", since the anchor is fixed to a moving object (the climber), and the line must move.

Although "Static" and "Dynamic" can refer to the construction/characteristics of a line being used, it also makes great sense when these terms relate to HOW that line is being used.

Thinking long term, it may be much easier to slowly, but surely transition these terms into conversation, since the acronyms can stay put, AND relate specifically to what they have always referred to. By thinking long term, we can move on with little disruption, overall.
 
Running loop positioning system doesnt require much explanation ?
Are you serious ?
I have no idea what that means and I climb trees on a regular basis.
Hope you guys are having fun with this, in reality I think it really wont make a difference but too a handful of people who care aboput this kind of thing, and that is a pretty small group.
Most climbers I know couldnt give a rats That term is abhorrent about terminology and dont really care if the general public can understand what they do ?
I dont work with the general public, occasional HO, I dont explain the technicalities of tree climbing, generally they just dont care, and I dont care to explain it to them unless they ask.
Eventually, some kid who went to school for a long time, and has probably never set a foot in a tree will come up with the terms we will have to re-adopt, you know this is true,but until that happens I guess you guys will have your fun, and that is all good, we all need diversions.
Personally I think its a time sink when the only thing your changing is your perception.
 
Here's an example of how much easier a simple word can make life.

I'm working with a friend for a few days. One job is a removal. Half of The top got removed yesterday and the e rest was left
For this morning. On the drive back to the shop I suggested that the trunk be flopped back into the yard onto a 'corduroy' My buddy said ''A what?' I came up with the convenient term to describe laying logs perpendicular to the lay of a trunk. Rather than having to use a long description all that needs to be said is 'make a corduroy'

My buddy used corduroy in a sentence this morning :)

No one is trying to force anyone to change terms.

Just maybe change a thought process.
 
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Eventually, some kid who went to school for a long time, and has probably never set a foot in a tree will come up with the terms we will have to re-adopt

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lol, nail on the head!

I personally think this kind of stuff is splitting hairs too. I've seen a few threads on here where one person is calling it SRT, the other SRWP, and I think even saw another one with an L in there.

Seems to me it just muddies the waters. Some new guy is going to show up who's just read about SRT in the Tree Climber's Companion and go, "SRT, SRWP, SRXYZWTF?"
 
Agreed. I think SRT should still stand for Single Rope Technique.

That acronym is too ingrained to make a change. The climbers may be able to accept a change, but the manufacturers of our gear all have instructions with SRT meaning only one thing, and I doubt that they want to make any change.
 
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Agreed. I think SRT should still stand for Single Rope Technique.

That acronym is too ingrained to make a change. The climbers may be able to accept a change, but the manufacturers of our gear all have instructions with SRT meaning only one thing, and I doubt that they want to make any change.

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Then it's worth circling back to look at SRT as the "parent" technique. And SRT has traditionally been thought of as an access technique. The Uni and the SRT hitch devices are the new twist that allow easy work positioning functionality ie: up and down without a changeover. So maybe modifying SRT as SRT-WP does it. I think SRT-WP is a big enough umbrella to cover the ways arborists are now working off of SRT systems.
-AJ
 
moss, that's makes sense to me and I think that the manufacturers would like that better as well.

I like keeping the "parent" technique word definition and building upon that with the WP's.
 

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