Splicing virgin, please help

emr

emr

Location
WI
I recently tried to pick up splicing. I am keeping it simple and only focusing on Tenex for now. I splice a whoopie sling that was not tapered correctly, or at all on the eye end. Norm, you might remember this since this is the one that you inspected for me at WAA (Dan B. help me with it). Anyway, last night I pulled the tail out of the bury and re-tapered it. This is where my questions come in. Is it ok to pull a splice out and re-do it, or will this somehow weaken the rope? My second question is how far into the bury can you start the taper? Is it ok to start the taper just inside the bury or does it need to be a couple of inches in? If these are super easy, basic questions, please forgive me as I mentioned in the title I am new at this. Thanks.
 
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1. Is it ok to pull a splice out and re-do it, or will this somehow weaken the rope? 2. My second question is how far into the bury can you start the taper? 3. Is it ok to start the taper just inside the bury or does it need to be a couple of inches in? If these are super easy, basic questions, please forgive me as I mentioned in the title I am new at this. Thanks.

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1. Absolutely. It is OK to pull it out and bury it back in.

2. Class 1 fibers require a 2 fid bury. One fid length of full volume bury and 1 full fid length of the taper. Most, if not all hollow braid instructions say to "mark a pair, skip a pair, mark a pair, skip a pair, ect." I mark a pair then count down 4 and mark that pair. It's more of a gradual taper. A trick Stanley Longstaff taught me.

3. You have to bury 1 full fid length of full volume (class 1 fibers only) to get max strength out of the splice. So, the total bury is 2 full fid lengths. One fid length of full volume and 1 fid length of tapered fibers.

Hope this helps.
 
Blinky, on Samson's website they show 2 fids for class 1, starting the taper just after the first fid, like norm said. For class 2, they show 3 fids, again only tapering the last fid's worth.
Yale's directions also show a 2 fid bury for polyester ropes, but the taper starts at a long fid, rather than at the full fid mark.

I can't remember the exact directions right now for the high-mod lines...maybe someone can pop open yalecordage.com and get those digits?

I also do a version of the elongated taper. It does seem much nicer to me, too!

love
nick
 
I will try and answer, someone please correct me if I am incorrect. Elongated taper is one that is just streched out over a longer distance. A regular taper spans 6 pairs of strands (cut one, leave one and so on) while an elongated taper spans 12 pairs of strands (cut one, leave 3 and so on) I hope that made sense and I hope that is correct because that is how I did mine.
 
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Norm,

Do you know of similar guidelines for high mod fibers?

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The length of the bury is 3 full fids with the taper being the last full fid mark. So you bury 2 lengths of full volume. The stitching is different as well. If possible, use the fiber (for the lock stitch) the rope is constructed of. Oh yeah, there is no tuck either (brummel). Strate bury. Lock stitch as you normally wood, then at the last pass thru, come out at 90*, not 180*, and start lock stitching back up towards the crotch of the splice. So it's lock stitched twice in a 90* pattern.
If this isn't clear, go to Samson's or Yale's website and check the class 2 splicing instructions.

I found a pic of some strate buries of Tech 12 and tech 16. On the tech 12 you can see the stitching.
 

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I will try and answer, someone please correct me if I am incorrect. Elongated taper is one that is just streched out over a longer distance. A regular taper spans 6 pairs of strands (cut one, leave one and so on) while an elongated taper spans 12 pairs of strands (cut one, leave 3 and so on) I hope that made sense and I hope that is correct because that is how I did mine.

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thanks for explaining that i had idea but wasn't sure
 
I think I am getting confused again here. If I am doing a Locked Brummel, do I still need a 2 fid bury? The instructions on Sampsons site say that you only need a one fid bury, but they also say that you dont need to taper it. I am going off of the instructions for a whoopie sling.
 
Ok, one more question, how do you know when to use a LB or just a regular eye splice? Again I am referring to what is on the Sampson web site.
 
LB lowers the breaking strength. I think they are used more for life support when the full strength isn't needed. For rigging you want the most you can get.
 
like brendonv said, its a trade off of security vs strength. The locking brumel bends the rope more, so there is a greater reduction in strength. A straight bury has lesss bend and so is stronger. On the other hand, the bury is held in place by friction with the rope its buried in. at higher loads the outer layer compresses and there is lots of friction with the bury, but at low loads there is less friction between the layers and bury can creep. So a straight bury is less secure, particulary without stiching to help hold it together.
 
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LB lowers the breaking strength. I think they are used more for life support when the full strength isn't needed. For rigging you want the most you can get.

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That second sentence is kind of funny if you take it at face value. I know what you are saying thou.
 
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I think I am getting confused again here. If I am doing a Locked Brummel, do I still need a 2 fid bury? The instructions on Sampsons site say that you only need a one fid bury, but they also say that you dont need to taper it. I am going off of the instructions for a whoopie sling.

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When using a LB splice, you can get buy with 1/2 fid bury. Make sure it's got a taper and stitch it.
 
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