Splicing question

matdand

matdand

Participating member
Location
Montreal, Qc
Hey to all splicers,
just started splicing. Everything is going pretty good but I got a couple of questions. Im using the instructions on the samson website. Why do you only reinsert the core to the original point of extraction when you splice used rope? When I spliced some new rope, the instrustions were to reinsert the core about a third of a fid past the point of extraction. Is it because it would be too difficult to get the core past the extraction point? Why would the splice be as strong if you dont reinsert the core as far? Is it cause the rope is used so there is more friction than in a new rope? (I hope this all makes sense).

Thanks for the help!
 
Yup, forgot to mention that. I got the samson training kit but used up all the rope that came with it. So Im now using some old poison ivy that was kicking around?
 
Hi,
The splice you describe, with the unburied core, is actually the original splice for double-braid, abandoned because it tends to kill people. Although in theory it produces an eye that has 150% of the mass of the standing part, and should thus be stronger, in practice any chafe on the cover radically reduces the strength. Also, if the load happens to come primarily or exclusively on the "hollow" side of the eye, the strength also plummets, and over a stress riser formed by the end of the core.
The proper splice is harder to bury, because you are trying to stuff the rope tighter. But it is redundantly strong. Some splicers will actually try for an imitation of the real thing, burying the core an inch or so down the standing part, so it doesn't leave a hollow spot. Nasty.
So, why does Samson suggest this splice for used rope? You might ask them. I can only speculate that someone figured that a crappy splice was better than none at all, which is somewhat at odds with reality.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
PS,
I'm not familiar with this rope; for all I know it takes a whole other splice to do it right. What does the maker recommend?
 
Hey guys,

PU, I havent climbed on this rope, not planning to either. Im just gonna use it to practice with and, one day, when I feel more confy with splicing, Ill get some tests done.

Brion, thanks for the info. Poison Ivy is made by Yale and their splicing instructions are almost the same as those for new england and samson (except for the samson used rope splice). At first I tried doing the normal splice on my used rope but wasnt able to get the core past the extraction point (even broke the snare on my wand! as you said NASTY). After that I found the used rope section on the samson website so decided to go with that, but I guess Ill be discarding this splice from now on. You (or anyone else) wouldnt happen to have a trick to get that core past the extraction point on a tight rope. By the way, I got your video and it is very heplful.

Cheers,
Matt
 
Matt- even on heavily used rope you shouldn't have even a bit of a prob burying the core back down the throat of the splice. You might have trouble later, but it shouldn't be happening already.

What size wand are you using and how big of a tail are you putting into the snare of the wand?

Okay, you've marked your eye, extracted the core and are ready to insert the wand along the throat of the splice. First pull out another foot of core so that the cover bunches up. This should make it plain easy to get the wand UP the throat. Get the wand in place. Now pull ANOTHER foot of core out to make sure you haven't snagged the core with the wand. If anything funky happens and the core isn't sliding smoothly you snagged the core. Back the wand out and try again. It can help to keep a little tension on the core to prevent snagging it with the tip of the wand.

Now you have the wand in place properly. The end of your core should be nice and clean. If it isn't, cut off a few inches so that the braid is now perfect. The splice creates a few extra inches anyways, so if you cut some off now you'll be fine. In the future you can keep the braid in tact by folding a piece of tape over the end after to extract the core.

Now unravel JUST 1/4" of the core. Release the snare and grab JUST HALF of the core strands. After pulling on the tail and setting the snare you should have a tail that is barely 1/2" long and is only made up of HALF of the core strands. The rest are just chilling out off to the side.

Now grab your trusty scissors and snip off the last bit of the extra strands that are just hanging out right now (not doing anything good except taking up space).

Now it's time to put the wand to work. Ideally you would have had the wand mounted on a vise so that you can use two hands to work. Pulling gently straight out away from the wand work the cover back over the core. You'll get resistance when the tip of the core gets back down to the extraction point. By this point you've induced a lot of slack into the throat of the splice, so it shouldn't fight you too much. If it does, you can help by pulling even MORE core out. You're doing this for two reasons. 1- to give even more slack to the throat. And 2- if you milk the cover while pulling more core with the other hand the core will almost "bring itself in" while you pull. The move takes a little practice and coordination, but once mastered it can be very handy.

If you've done all this and still can't get the core buried, you'll have to do a very special, old splicers trick. Go down the rope about 2-3'. Tightly wrap some tape over the cover at this spot. Now using a sharp pair of scissors cut completely through the tape, severing both the cover and core. Discard your attempted splice. This rope is not spliceable.

love
nick

"I hate to look into those eyes and see an ounce of pain." ...Axl Rose
 
Thanks Nick, good stuff.

Im using the medium wand and I was putting all the strands into it, so I guess that was a mistake. My big problem right now is not having anything to install a vise onto. Gotta get that settled and Ill be better installed to work. Thanks again for the info (especialy the old splicers secret). Man Id love to be in LA right now, its already getting freakin cold up here!

Peace,
Matt
 
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