Skid vs Mini Skid

burtonbc1400

burtonbc1400

Participating member
Location
Enderby, BC
Hey TreeBuzz,
I'm starting research into getting a piece of equipment. So far my set up is a F150, a 5x10 ubilt dump trailer, F550 chip truck, 14" Vermeer chipper.
I am in a rural/suburban area. Interior BC Canada . Homeowners mostly have modest incomes around here.
The way I see it, a mini skid steer would help me to do a lot/most t of the jobs I am already doing faster/better, with some wood loading. A regular skid steer would help me with some/few of the jobs better and also branch out into other work, eg more lot clearing, more heavy log loading, firesmart, etc. Also snow removal?
I've also heard good things about compact articulating loaders? I don't know how they would help in terms of access/maneuverability/slopes and rough terrain. Have not seen any ever in real life.
I am not very experienced running equipment, but I feel confident I can learn. I have run a rental excavator with success.
So, Does anyone have advice? New vs used? Mini vs Full size? How big full size? Brands to recommend? Tracks vs wheels? Other types of work to use a skid steer for related to tree work?
Thanks for the advice!
 
burtonbc1400 said:
So, Does anyone have advice? New vs used? Mini vs Full size?
Click to expand...
I had these same questions a couple of years ago. For me I went with a used mini, a Vermeer s600. Reasons for choosing a mini was mostly for ability to haul it. At the time I was 90% working solo and needed to haul my bucket truck, chipper and loader in one trip. The mini skid can ramp up into the chip box whereas the full size has to have a dedicated trailer. My setup was not always the best because if I put anything into the chip box, I'd have to come back for the mini. That said, not that I recommend doing it long term, a mini can fit in a short bed 1/2 ton pickup. Just remove the tailgate before loading/ unloading.


As far as new/ used, I went with used because its what I could afford without payments. It was an older unit with low hours, a 2006 with only 922 hrs. Obviously used equipment is a gamble and I ended up losing 90% hydraulic power after only putting 2 hrs on the meter. This cost me quite a bit of down time pulling apart the controls and finding an o-ring that had busted. Good news is that I got a better understanding of how it works and I found that the o-ring was actually accessible without tearing down the machine. Turns out to have been a regular problem with the machine that the dealer that I bought from did not disclose. After a dozen or so o-rings (now a 5 min fix, after finding the o-ring location) I changed the hydraulic fluid that was due to be changed every 1000 hrs and its not blown anymore. I've also had a couple of more repairs that were needed and the biggest issues with those is that Vermeer does not carry many parts for a 14 year old machine. I've even had one or two parts custom made at a machine shop.

Overall it was worth it as its saved hundreds of hours of labor and a lot of back ache. Although you may find yourself working on a new unit less. I can't speak for all models but this one is pretty basic/ easy to work on. I can remove, rebuild, and reinstall a hydraulic drive motor in about 1.5 hrs without rushing.

Last bit on a long post, I'm in the minority here but I prefer a wheeled mini skid over tracks. I've only ran two rental track machines, both were toro 427tx (I think) one walk behind and the other with a platform. Both caused more turf damage than my Vermeer, I hardly ever lay down any plywood for the vermeer. Two more pros (but definitely not 100% necessary) of the Vermeer. I like the closed in platform so that you have something to lean against on the left and right side, Toro hangs off the back and nothing to lean against if you make a fast sharp turn out on the street. 2nd, the wheeled Vermeer does wheelies :rock:which is actually useful for a tight turn allowing you to spin in place without turf damage or the extra friction of spinning on pavement with all 4 wheels grabbing asphalt.
 
Try to stay away from lot clearing - it's a money loser if you aren't doing it full time.

Mini skid will play very nice with your chipper. I have one and love it. They are great in tight spaces and on hills of any length over 5 feet.

Articulated loaders like the Avant 420 are easier to operate and usually have a bit more tip weight. They are a lot faster on longer runs.

All machines operate best with a Branch Manager Grapple.

These smaller machines are better at managing branches, and better in narrower suburban/urban spaces. The larger ones are great on really big trunk wood and on farms, etc. that are wide open. Occasionally, I wish I had a big machine, but it only happens for a couple logs, every couple years.
 
With the equipment you currently have, I would say go with the mini. A larger model if budget allows, perhaps a CTX100 or SK800. Buy the bigger loader later when you can afford it. And as stated above, avoid land clearing. Without big equipment, you can’t compete on price, and it will be very labor intensive too.
 
It seems arborists love their Minis! I can see that likely, I would be able to use a mini day in day out for forwarding branches and chippable material into the chipper.
I just feel I'm missing out on a huge benefit of the job: the wood! I'm either leaving the wood behind, or subbing the removal of the stemwood out. Some of the wood is usable for milling or firewood, Douglas-Fir, White Pine, Maple etc . Some isn't usable Willow and Cottonwood, but I still am missing out on billing that out.
I did try out a used DW SK500 for sale locally. It seemed very weak! Something like the CTX100 would work better for this job? How does that compare to the BC MT85 or other DW models?
Nobody thinks a regular skid would be the way to go??? Anyone had success branching out to similar but heavier work with a regular skid?
Can a mini fit on the back of say a SRW one ton flat deck as a long term option?
Thanks for the feedback!
 
burtonbc1400 said:
It seems arborists love their Minis! I can see that likely, I would be able to use a mini day in day out for forwarding branches and chippable material into the chipper.
I just feel I'm missing out on a huge benefit of the job: the wood! I'm either leaving the wood behind, or subbing the removal of the stemwood out. Some of the wood is usable for milling or firewood, Douglas-Fir, White Pine, Maple etc . Some isn't usable Willow and Cottonwood, but I still am missing out on billing that out.
I did try out a used DW SK500 for sale locally. It seemed very weak! Something like the CTX100 would work better for this job? How does that compare to the BC MT85 or other DW models?
Nobody thinks a regular skid would be the way to go??? Anyone had success branching out to similar but heavier work with a regular skid?
Can a mini fit on the back of say a SRW one ton flat deck as a long term option?
Thanks for the feedback!
Click to expand...
Wow that’s a lot of questions! The bigger the mini, the more capable it will be, but be forewarned - the biggest minis do not fit through a 36” gate. If that’s not a problem, go big.

A CTX100 will move 1500 lb. logs, carefully. That gets you some saw logs out, you can contract a log truck for larger pieces. Firewood logs can be cut short, so any loader will handle them.

A regular skidloader will do a lot, but they’re also very hard on lawns, unless you buy a Bobcat A300/A770, but they’re big enough you’ll need a CDL to transport one. We have one regular skid steer, a Cat 246, which will move a lot of wood, but it requires a REALLY good operator to avoid roto-tilling every lawn you drive on.

I believe you could put a mini on the bed of a SRW one ton truck, as long as the truck is light enough. The truck will likely be very near it’s GVW though, so check your weights to be sure.
 
If I were the op I would make a note of all the jobs that would be excluded by not having a machine that fits through a 36” gate. I went back and audited my work load when I was looking at machines and found I rarely, maybe once every five months or so, needed that skinny machine.
Those 34” machines leave ruts and tip easily compared to 40/42” machines.
 
burtonbc1400 said:
Can a mini fit on the back of say a SRW one ton flat deck as a long term option?
Click to expand...
I can't speak for the single rear wheel, but I now carry mine on the deck of a dually f350 with a 8X12 flatbed. I built a 8X8 toolbox on the back of the flatbed and park the mini on the front 4'

It is easier to load and unload from a trailer, but a flatbed is a nice solution if your already towing a trailer/chipper. The biggest issues with loading on a truck bed is dealing with side slope (its a bigger issue at 42" deck height than a trailer) and hauling around 80lb ramps. Unless you find a lighter weight set of ramps that hold up to the load.
 
Just a few more tidbits to add since the last posts by the OP and others:

I can roll and slide big chunks into my dump rolloff bin, so I do not need a grapple truck until I get into 50-60" diameter wood. That said, I rarely haul wood over 25" diameter myself because it is cheaper to sub out. My biggest takedown involved a laurel oak crotch that was above the ~50" diameter trunk. I was able to push and roll 10' sections (~6-8k lbs) from the crane assist down the street to the pile about 50 feet away. Not ideal, but it works. I have an sk650 ditch witch. Conversely, sticking a big loader on small brush is really awkward - all the athleticism of the minis is lost.

Definitely get aluminum ramps. My 6' steel ramps suck, but if they were longer they would suck much more. The minimum length really is 8 feet and I would go with 10 feet. I compensate by tipping my dump bed and it is a bit sketchy, especially on wet dewy mornings or when there is a hydraulic leak.

That sk500 would be rubbish - operating tip weight is only 500 lbs. which is 1/3 the tip weight on a perfect surface, so you're looking at a max of 900 in real life. The good ditch witch minis are the sk650, sk755, sk850, sk1050, and sk1500.

The bc mt85 probably goes slow in reverse and had a proprietary attachment system rather than a universal attachment plate. It probably comes with a joystick rather than two independent sticks.

If you're looking for a cheap entrypoint, northern tool is selling a knockoff miniskid for 16k. I tried it the other day and it is hard to argue with the value.

Check the payload spec of your truck and compare it to the weight of the unit you want to get. You should be able to get it in the back with a 10 foot ramp.

Fivestar ramps is a good option for aluminum ramps that are curved at the top. tracked machines need that curve. Wheeled articulated units do not.
 
Another note on the ramps. I originally went with 3000lb atv ramps (my mini weighs 2300lbs) and after a couple of months they started to bend. Overkill on your ramps is a good thing. I'm currently using 10,000lb 10' ramps from discountramps.com.

As far as weight capacity, there are tips, tricks, and techniques that allow you to do more than the machine says on paper. According to the specs my mini will lift about 600lbs. On a couple of occasions now I've loaded 2,200lb logs to be able to mill. It takes longer than a big machine would take for that size piece, but it gets the job done.
 
Jehinten said:
I had these same questions a couple of years ago. For me I went with a used mini, a Vermeer s600. Reasons for choosing a mini was mostly for ability to haul it. At the time I was 90% working solo and needed to haul my bucket truck, chipper and loader in one trip. The mini skid can ramp up into the chip box whereas the full size has to have a dedicated trailer. My setup was not always the best because if I put anything into the chip box, I'd have to come back for the mini. That said, not that I recommend doing it long term, a mini can fit in a short bed 1/2 ton pickup. Just remove the tailgate before loading/ unloading.


As far as new/ used, I went with used because its what I could afford without payments. It was an older unit with low hours, a 2006 with only 922 hrs. Obviously used equipment is a gamble and I ended up losing 90% hydraulic power after only putting 2 hrs on the meter. This cost me quite a bit of down time pulling apart the controls and finding an o-ring that had busted. Good news is that I got a better understanding of how it works and I found that the o-ring was actually accessible without tearing down the machine. Turns out to have been a regular problem with the machine that the dealer that I bought from did not disclose. After a dozen or so o-rings (now a 5 min fix, after finding the o-ring location) I changed the hydraulic fluid that was due to be changed every 1000 hrs and its not blown anymore. I've also had a couple of more repairs that were needed and the biggest issues with those is that Vermeer does not carry many parts for a 14 year old machine. I've even had one or two parts custom made at a machine shop.

Overall it was worth it as its saved hundreds of hours of labor and a lot of back ache. Although you may find yourself working on a new unit less. I can't speak for all models but this one is pretty basic/ easy to work on. I can remove, rebuild, and reinstall a hydraulic drive motor in about 1.5 hrs without rushing.

Last bit on a long post, I'm in the minority here but I prefer a wheeled mini skid over tracks. I've only ran two rental track machines, both were toro 427tx (I think) one walk behind and the other with a platform. Both caused more turf damage than my Vermeer, I hardly ever lay down any plywood for the vermeer. Two more pros (but definitely not 100% necessary) of the Vermeer. I like the closed in platform so that you have something to lean against on the left and right side, Toro hangs off the back and nothing to lean against if you make a fast sharp turn out on the street. 2nd, the wheeled Vermeer does wheelies :rock:which is actually useful for a tight turn allowing you to spin in place without turf damage or the extra friction of spinning on pavement with all 4 wheels grabbing asphalt.
Click to expand...
You've hauled a mini in a pickup bed? Ive always wondered why i havent seen people doing it? I am considering putting a smaller mini in a 3/4 ton pickup bed.
 
wisconsintreeguy said:
You've hauled a mini in a pickup bed? Ive always wondered why i havent seen people doing it? I am considering putting a smaller mini in a 3/4 ton pickup bed.
Click to expand...
Yup. I have hauled it several times in a 1/2 ton short bed silverado. You do have to remove the tailgate, I wouldn't want to trust those cables to hold that machine up, and you run the risk of denting the front of your truck bed like I did by having a machine strapped down against it.

When hauling it in another truck (not owned by me) we took a couple of extra precautions. A piece of plywood laid in the bed and a small 2'X4' piece of plywood upright at the front of the bed, by the cab glass. Although it was only hauled in that truck a couple of times, those precautions seemed to prevent the damage that my truck bed received.

While a regular pickup bed does work, it feels much better on my F350 flatbed than it did on that half ton. I always figured a utility bed would work good as well. Heavy duty floor and lots of tool boxes for gear storage.
 
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Follow up and cross post:
I have the opportunity to purchase a used sk750. I was considering the normal ride in skid steers, or new mini skids, but this has come available. They have it listed for $17500 CAD. I was quoted $35000 CAD for a new sk800. I live in rural BC and have found next to no used machines so I am pretty eager.
I always try to haggle, and I would prefer something a bit bigger, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot and miss a good opportunity. The machine is 6hrs drive away.
Things to look out for?
 
southsoundtree said:
Curved ramps would help, but straight are possible.

An auger and Atom splitter might help break down junk wood into chippable pieces, and facilitates firewood processing.
Click to expand...
What auger are you using? We have one rated for 1800 ft lbs and an atom splitter but tore up the frame on our auger last week. Seems like it needs more torque. Good techniques help but ours still gets stuck regularly. Seems like if it keep driving it would just pop apart.
 
Just curious, you guys with atom splitters, how often do you use your splitter vs noodling wood to be able to pick it up. Is it worth switching back and forth from the auger to the grapple on a job?

I'll occasionally get into trees that the trunk has to be cut into firewood rounds then either halved or quartered to pick them up with the mini.
 
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