[saw & B&C reco's sought] My biggest saw is a 42cc/18"...w/ the storms coming I feel naked, uncertain what to buy :/

[eyehearttrees]

So I was under a false-impression that it'd be OK to put a >30" B&C onto an echo 590 (which'd let me "affordably" get a 3' or near-3' bar saw)

Now that I know I can't get close to that size onto a 590, I'm kinda stuck...I don't want my 42cc 18" to be my biggest saw, it's hardly bigger than my best climbsaw (36cc/16"), but - considering I don't really need it so much yet (larger powerhead and b&c), and've never owned one, am uncertain what to do (IE if it's still smart to just "go one lil level-up" with a 24" cs590, or if that's kinda silly with already having 18"/42cc....or if it's smarter to bite my tongue and pay whatever's needed to drive a 30"+ b&c (any&all suggestions hugely appreciated here)

I'm a "solo tree service", last year I was doing contract climbing and on larger stuff there's this guy that'd get brought in to finish off the lower parts of the trunks (and he'd often take some of that wood, apparently you can sell it for milling/carving usage if you know the right people, heard him negotiating a ~$400 price point for a burl-bearing piece of ~4' DBH trunking from a laurel oak I'd taken down to 10' trunk-height)

So, being solo since late '19, I naturally gravitated towards limbing and whatnot, not full removals (as I'm setup well with climbing stuff & ropes, not a chipper or heavy equipment) But as time passes I'm still fiending for bigger & bigger projects, and - with storm season upon us - I realize & feel naked not having anything >18" in my stable!

Any & all suggestions greatly appreciated, including vintage stuff that's "available if you can build", and including kit saws (I've got enough time working on saws that, if the only way to beat $1k price--point for a saw that'll properly hold a 30"+ B&C, then I'm game for that!)

 

[southsoundtree]

Post a WTB on TreeBay.

 

[Reach]

I am a huge fan of the Stihl 462, or the heavier 461. That’s about the smallest saw I would consider with a 30” bar, we run them with 25” and they are quite happy. It is some money to spend, but I think it’s well worth it. Those are the saws our ground guys run the most, our 362s with 20” bars don’t get near the use on the ground most days.

 

[Jonny]

A good top handle, a 50cc and a 70cc is a decent setup. Keep a short bar and a long bar for the 70.
I really like 60cc saws though. I’ll keep 18” or 20” on them, but put a 24/25” on when needed. That really only happens when there’s a lot of bigger wood to cut and my two bigger saws are already being used or one is out of service. It’s rare that I have 3 people bucking big wood.

 

[Birdyman88]

I was pretty diligent about watching craigslist every week a few years back and ending up scoring a 661c in mint condition for $1K even. I had a large search radius. Had to drive 200 miles, but seller was willing to talk extensively over phone about condition. I could not imagine having anything less for 30"+ bar. Nice to be able to go all the way up to 52" with skip chain when needed. That saw paid for itself about a month after I bought it when a gentleman called looking to put a 6' diameter oak on ground and cut up into 18" lengths.

 

[islandarb]

Meh get a 661 ......with 3 bars. 25, 28, 36.....I go from a 261 to it....only use a 28 or 36....

 

[A_Reittenbach]

I was pretty diligent about watching craigslist every week a few years back and ending up scoring a 661c in mint condition for $1K even. I had a large search radius. Had to drive 200 miles, but seller was willing to talk extensively over phone about condition. I could not imagine having anything less for 30"+ bar. Nice to be able to go all the way up to 52" with skip chain when needed. That saw paid for itself about a month after I bought it when a gentleman called looking to put a 6' diameter oak on ground and cut up into 18" lengths.

I got really lucky and picked up one like new for 750.00

 

[Jonny]

Got my ms650 for 700$, like new. Craigslist also.

 

[Jehinten]

Meh get a 661 ......with 3 bars. 25, 28, 36.....I go from a 261 to it....only use a 28 or 36....

I have the same setup, almost always wears the 36. Since getting the modded 261, we've been known to double cut with it instead of grabbing the 661 but that's getting into another discussion.

@eyehearttrees best bang for your buck is a larger powerhead and you can throw a shorter bar on it if you wish. Barely stepping up in CCs will leave you wanting more at some point in the future.

 

[eyehearttrees]

A good top handle, a 50cc and a 70cc is a decent setup. Keep a short bar and a long bar for the 70.
I really like 60cc saws though. I’ll keep 18” or 20” on them, but put a 24/25” on when needed. That really only happens when there’s a lot of bigger wood to cut and my two bigger saws are already being used or one is out of service. It’s rare that I have 3 people bucking big wood.

Have 3 awesome top-handles since that is where most of my time/work is done (I'm a 1-man show, all ropes, all rigging...ideal jobs are the lowest ratio of debris-to-time!) But am hitting more & more scenarios wherein a bigger saw would really make a difference, and my biggest (42cc / 18") is barely bigger than my big climbsaw (16" / 36cc) so if, say, my 42cc is sick and I have to finish a big Norfolk Pine like last week, I end up like this:

Don't get me wrong...with wedges and know-how Re felling, and a truck you can use for pull/guy'ing, you can do a helluva lot!!! But I know I need bigger and my instinct was to "go big" but will explain (and hope for your reply if you'd be so kind!) in the next post below this one, am still on-fence, with cash in-hand ready (eager ) to buy*, but just stuck choosing because of a 'meta' problem Re bigger chainsaws in-general that I cannot resolve, explained in the next post below:

 

[eyehearttrees]

"Meta" Q's on 'bigger chainsaws' that I simply cannot wrap my head around!!

Thanks a ton for all the replies here guys, the $$ for a new saw is burning a hole in my pocket LOL am glad I have the willpower to wait here til I make an informed decision....I'm struggling with understanding things because of seeming-contradictions I'm finding, hoping you guys can shed light on some/any of the following:

#1 -- CC to bar-size..... If I get a 25cc climbsaw I can put a 12" on it, it's 'normal'. Adding ~50% displacement to 42cc, and 50% to bar-size, gets us the ubiquitous 42cc/18" models available everywhere. But, when I'm to go and add 50% displacement to my 40cc (IE buying a 60cc), it's not like it's OK (according to most people) to go and add 50% to my bar (ie a 27").....now it's only OK to add 1/3rd to my bar (ie going from 18" to 24", when going from 40cc to 60cc) THEN, it's muddied even further with this "phenomena" I'm seeing where some 60-70cc machines are totally cool to put near-30" bars on (ie the 44* stihl series, some makita's, I know a popular Husqvarna with 30" bar is just a 70cc....that's ONLY 10cc up on a 60cc, yet people seem to scoff at thinking of going >24" on a 60cc...And here I was, thinking that - on these lil internal combustion 2-strokes - that you GAINED efficiency w/ each CC, at least in the displacement ranges of saws (IE, doubling the CC's should more-than double the HP/output of the powerhead, yet for some reason adding 50% to displacement only allows 50% bar-increases up til 40cc, from there onward you need significantly more CC's per bar-inch...)

#2 -- PRICING!! WTF is the reason that you can get saws all day for reasonable prices at sub-40 even sub-60cc powerheads, but the moment you say "It's gotta be >61cc displacement" suddenly there's not a sub-$600 model in the world?

Thanks a ton for helping understand these things guys, I spent ages figuring-out climbsaws (and have 3, although my middle one is never ever used, just a backup, because I didn't realize - then- that my best combo is "1 light/small saw, 1 larger/stronger trunk-wood saw" for climbsaws!) and, with my new purchase being a larger / more expensive one, I wanna ensure I'm approaching it right!

 

[climbstihl]

"Meta" Q's on 'bigger chainsaws' that I simply cannot wrap my head around!!

Thanks a ton for all the replies here guys, the $$ for a new saw is burning a hole in my pocket LOL am glad I have the willpower to wait here til I make an informed decision....I'm struggling with understanding things because of seeming-contradictions I'm finding, hoping you guys can shed light on some/any of the following:

#1 -- CC to bar-size..... If I get a 25cc climbsaw I can put a 12" on it, it's 'normal'. Adding ~50% displacement to 42cc, and 50% to bar-size, gets us the ubiquitous 42cc/18" models available everywhere. But, when I'm to go and add 50% displacement to my 40cc (IE buying a 60cc), it's not like it's OK (according to most people) to go and add 50% to my bar (ie a 27").....now it's only OK to add 1/3rd to my bar (ie going from 18" to 24", when going from 40cc to 60cc) THEN, it's muddied even further with this "phenomena" I'm seeing where some 60-70cc machines are totally cool to put near-30" bars on (ie the 44* stihl series, some makita's, I know a popular Husqvarna with 30" bar is just a 70cc....that's ONLY 10cc up on a 60cc, yet people seem to scoff at thinking of going >24" on a 60cc...And here I was, thinking that - on these lil internal combustion 2-strokes - that you GAINED efficiency w/ each CC, at least in the displacement ranges of saws (IE, doubling the CC's should more-than double the HP/output of the powerhead, yet for some reason adding 50% to displacement only allows 50% bar-increases up til 40cc, from there onward you need significantly more CC's per bar-inch...)

#2 -- PRICING!! WTF is the reason that you can get saws all day for reasonable prices at sub-40 even sub-60cc powerheads, but the moment you say "It's gotta be >61cc displacement" suddenly there's not a sub-$600 model in the world?

Thanks a ton for helping understand these things guys, I spent ages figuring-out climbsaws (and have 3, although my middle one is never ever used, just a backup, because I didn't realize - then- that my best combo is "1 light/small saw, 1 larger/stronger trunk-wood saw" for climbsaws!) and, with my new purchase being a larger / more expensive one, I wanna ensure I'm approaching it right!

That's a lot to unpack, I'm not even going to attempt to answer most of that, because I don't know enough about it.
What I feel I can answer is why there are few options, especially cheap ones, for 60cc+ saws, most manufacturers (Stihl and Husqy atleast, Echo ist different, don't know about Makita, Dolmar etc) have a pro lineup of saws and a homeowner and inbetween level. Those saws will vary in quality and materials, but also in power to weight ratios, and cc to hp ratios. I think largest non pro saw is the 390, which should be around 60cc, and that is simply because the target customer for the non-pro saws do not need anything larger. The typical homeowner will not need anything over 40cc, with a 16" bar, and the typical farmer will be well served with a 20-25" 60cc. There are exceptions of course, but so few that it would not be worth it for a comoany to make a lower grade bigger saw, if 90% of the customers buying a big saw would want a pro saw anyway, because of the reliability, lower weight, better power, etc.

 

[27RMT0N]

You are overthinking this man. Don't get lost in the details, if you are a professional and making money at it, just go to the store, buy a professional quality ~60cc saw and watch how much easier/better it makes your work go.

 

[colb]

At the larger CCs, the bars start to be costly. Think about buying a long bar that is compatible with the powerhead you eventually want to get. As a sole operator, you always dictate the force applied to the cut, so you can 1.) run a slightly longer bar than spec, and 2.) use skip chain on an even longer bar.

Also, remember that you need the capability to get your large saw unstuck. Storm damage tends to pinch the bar. Each situation can be unpinched by some unique combination of another saw, an MA rope system, wedges, and heavy equipment. The second saw issue can often be solved by removing the powerhead and sticking on a backup bar/chain. Overall, make a plan that works for you, as you are already.

 

[Crimsonking]

For what it’s worth, my 462 has been seeing more in-tree action than my 200t recently. 25” light bar. It’s my most-used saw. My husq 395 (similar to 661, just better) is a great, powerful saw, but I don’t like managing multiple bars for one saw, and the 32” bar that stays on it is a bit too much for common aerial work. The 462 is light enough for some small cuts in the top of a tree, and powerful enough to handle the bigger cuts as well. I know not everyone will take this approach, but it keeps me efficient on crane jobs, the majority of my contracting these days. No wasted time switching saws, faster cutting than a small saw.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

You are overthinking this man. Don't get lost in the details, if you are a professional and making money at it, just go to the store, buy a professional quality ~60cc saw and watch how much easier/better it makes your work go.

Literally nothing else to say! Get one and pay it off in a blink!

 

[Lupin_IV]

"Meta" Q's on 'bigger chainsaws' that I simply cannot wrap my head around!!

Thanks a ton for all the replies here guys, the $$ for a new saw is burning a hole in my pocket LOL am glad I have the willpower to wait here til I make an informed decision....I'm struggling with understanding things because of seeming-contradictions I'm finding, hoping you guys can shed light on some/any of the following:

#1 -- CC to bar-size..... If I get a 25cc climbsaw I can put a 12" on it, it's 'normal'. Adding ~50% displacement to 42cc, and 50% to bar-size, gets us the ubiquitous 42cc/18" models available everywhere. But, when I'm to go and add 50% displacement to my 40cc (IE buying a 60cc), it's not like it's OK (according to most people) to go and add 50% to my bar (ie a 27").....now it's only OK to add 1/3rd to my bar (ie going from 18" to 24", when going from 40cc to 60cc) THEN, it's muddied even further with this "phenomena" I'm seeing where some 60-70cc machines are totally cool to put near-30" bars on (ie the 44* stihl series, some makita's, I know a popular Husqvarna with 30" bar is just a 70cc....that's ONLY 10cc up on a 60cc, yet people seem to scoff at thinking of going >24" on a 60cc...And here I was, thinking that - on these lil internal combustion 2-strokes - that you GAINED efficiency w/ each CC, at least in the displacement ranges of saws (IE, doubling the CC's should more-than double the HP/output of the powerhead, yet for some reason adding 50% to displacement only allows 50% bar-increases up til 40cc, from there onward you need significantly more CC's per bar-inch...)

#2 -- PRICING!! WTF is the reason that you can get saws all day for reasonable prices at sub-40 even sub-60cc powerheads, but the moment you say "It's gotta be >61cc displacement" suddenly there's not a sub-$600 model in the world?

Thanks a ton for helping understand these things guys, I spent ages figuring-out climbsaws (and have 3, although my middle one is never ever used, just a backup, because I didn't realize - then- that my best combo is "1 light/small saw, 1 larger/stronger trunk-wood saw" for climbsaws!) and, with my new purchase being a larger / more expensive one, I wanna ensure I'm approaching it right!

If you wanna approach this right, stop thinking so much and just buy a damn saw :b
putting a lot of undue wear on that little guy, which continues to add up as you think it over. I’m already about to explode on my business partner just glancing at that photo and thinking about the frustration and added strain of using a saw like that to do what’s depicted.

 

[Barc Buster]

Lots of great advice given so far. Agree with what’s been posted shut up and pick you favorite 70+ cc pro saw. Like yesterday! One job will literally pay for the saw and then it will continue to earn for years to come if you treat it right. One hitch might be availability right now. Many of the large pro saws have been sold out for months. If you have to have something sooner than later there are several nice 70+cc saws for sale in the Ope forum for sale section. Most notable are a Jonsred 2095, a 2018 372, and a really nice ported Makita (dolmar) 7900. The makita/dolmar saws are bench made in Germany btw. My ported 7900 will handle 28-30” bar and chain very well. Anything bigger than that and I pull out the ported Stihl 660.

The manufacturer recommended bar sizes has to do with what they have engineered the chassis to handle. In your 60cc and 28” bar example you would see excessive wear on things like the anti vibration parts. Furthermore, the saw isn’t likely to balance well and could contribute to added user fatigue or repetitive stress injuries like carpal tunnel.

 

[islandarb]

28" bar on a 60cc saw. Ha ha ha. Plain stupidity. I hate the sihl 60cc class ....pure heavy deadweight. Ported 461 or at least a muffler mod. I run a 661 with just a muffler mod. What a beast. But we have really good gas here. Plus I am mostly near sea level. Skip chain too.

 

[eyehearttrees]

At the larger CCs, the bars start to be costly. Think about buying a long bar that is compatible with the powerhead you eventually want to get. As a sole operator, you always dictate the force applied to the cut, so you can 1.) run a slightly longer bar than spec, and 2.) use skip chain on an even longer bar.

Also, remember that you need the capability to get your large saw unstuck. Storm damage tends to pinch the bar. Each situation can be unpinched by some unique combination of another saw, an MA rope system, wedges, and heavy equipment. The second saw issue can often be solved by removing the powerhead and sticking on a backup bar/chain. Overall, make a plan that works for you, as you are already.

So well-put, thanks for such a thorough reply (have yet to finish reading the others' replies so not saying this "is best" or putting others' down!)

So....what you say Re skip-chains had crossed my mind, a regular full-house chain is gonna have 50% as many cutters as total-links, whereas a skip-chain is 33% (1 cutter every 3 links), ergo a 20" full house has as many cutters as a 30" skip-chain would (think my math is on-point there!) There's obviously frictional loss to the spinning chain, and - in cases of pinch - you're talking about significantly larger areas that can be pinched (and wussier powerheads to potentially avoid a pinch by gunning the saw)

What you say Re "second saw to cut it out", I cannot agree more wholeheartedly and it's not just for cutting-out a stuck saw it's for anything (as I know that you know, of course), I always like to have 2 of any piece of equipment that is critical I mean what if the saw went out, or the bar bent, while you were halfway through your back-cut? Could get yourself in an ugly situation...

I was very very lucky, my 590's customization and porting went very well but that will simply make it awesome with its OEM 20" setup, if FedEx could just fufilll their damn ETA then today (shoulda been yesterday) lands a G660 92cc which will be powering the longer bar, but this effectively puts me to the "2 large saws" position I want, where I can grab 'the other one' in most cases....haven't been waiting on mail like this in ages, damnit fedex c'mon stop telling me it's still in TN yet somehow the ETA is still today
[should mention this saw, and the B&C coming with it, were not purchased / were an incredibly gracious gift, not quite certain how the giver would feel about me naming them though, gotta figure that out lol, would not at all surprise me if being associated w/ the g660 at all would be undesirable for them Haven't felt so lucky in as long as I can remember!!]