Sales, bidding, estimating: what's your style?

I itemize each tree on the quote. My justification for doing so is: if the one number is too much for them, perhaps we can still help that client with a smaller scale project. I will explain "we can do these small things for a lower price because we'll already be on site. If you choose to not do any the bigger items, that will have to increase the price of the little a bit."

I do not quote anything by the hour I only quote by the job. Of course when I am quoting, I am thinking by the hour to come up with a total of what it will take to do that job. Overhead has to be included in that rate I apply... otherwise, who is going to pay for the overhead?

If there are rental expenses, I just add that on my estimate. So if I think it would take $1000 to do the job, but we need to rent something to make it happen and that rental is $400...now I'm quoting $1400 (well, probably $1500...gonna taken time to go get it and bring it back). I tend not to add much mark up to rental cost. Not the client's problem I don't have that equipment...
 
This is such a great thread! I've been an arb for about 20 years and the last two years I've been in business for myself. I used to bid for a company that I cilmbed for for maybe 2-3 days a month, but now bidding has never been more important since it's just all me. I'm pretty much the sole job manpower as well, with an occasional helper.

I'm of the habit, unless it's a really small job, of making notes and taking photos and videos and then emailing a quote within 24 hours or so. I suspect that I'm landing about 50% of the jobs that I bid so far.

When I'm out bidding, I tend to be fairly casual and friendly and I'm definitely not overselling myself. I take a very similar approach as what @cody willard described. I'm still so new at this that I'm struggling to determine an overhead and a $ per man hour that I should be charging. I'm currently bidding and hoping to close jobs at around $100/man hour. This is in line with what many professional tree services are charging in my area. That's for me, chip truck and chipper and all of my gear. Also- I often end up doing a lot of small-medium removals with no clean up, so for those types of jobs, I bid less because I can often pack all required gear into an economy car and have a lower operating cost.

I really have so much to learn in this realm and to that end, have considered buying products from https://treesavages.com/ (no affiliation). From what I gather though, some of the tactics seem a bit high pressure for my liking (sit down while discussing details and terms, always provide estimate on site before leaving...) Does anyone havre experience with the Red Beard/Tree Savages offerings?
 
$100 per hour including chipper is probably a little lean. If you have a crew of 2 or 3, then that is probably pretty good at $100 per man hour.... I'm guessing it probably covers expenses, but I'm also guessing you won't find a lot of room for growth. If there were 2 of you and you were $100 per man hour (so $200 per hour you are on site), you probably have expenses of +/-$50 for that second employee...now you are getting $50 additional for overhead and growth.
 
I walk every bid personally. Pictures never tell the whole story. I request email and cell phone and provide a text message and fully written quote within 24 hours of being on site. I like to have the small window to play it through in my head and not blurt a number while on site or being pressured. If they are on site while viewing I like to explain what our approach will be as far as equipment, rigging, clean up and get permission at the time for things such as driving on driveways, taking down fence panel, etc, etc. Will provide credentials/insurance if desired with estimate if they so desire. I bid it for what its worth to my company after that.
 
A client will seldom pay you more than what you think you are worth! This statement has caused quite a lot of thought for me, as having the tendency to price low for any number of reasons.

I have always thought there should be a form similar to the TRAC form, that guides you through a series of questions for the job not to get to the risk rating, but to the price. I think with a little doing and testing a form and formula could be created with all the values per question.

Like has already been mentioned, this is a great thread!
 
Simpleiowaguy said:
If they are on site while viewing I like to explain what our approach will be as far as equipment, rigging, clean up and get permission at the time for things such as driving on driveways, taking down fence panel, etc, etc.
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That's a great point worth mentioning, talking about the process can definitely have a great impact on how the job goes. You may get granted or denied certain permissions that can dramatically affect the price. I always like to ask the client to inform the neighbor's too, if the job will impact them in any way. We always talk to the neighbor's ourselves the day of the work too if this is the case, something like "hi, we'll be working on these trees at the property line etc. etc." but it really helps if the client alerts them first.
 
It isn't exactly a strategy but I guess if I had to describe it, I play hard to get. I have about a 48+ hour response time to calls and emails. I view emails as tire kickers. I will straight up say "I'm slammed, and it will be x amount of time before I can come for a quote. IF you accept a quote today it will likely be x number of months before I can come do the work.

This is where it gets interesting, it goes one of two ways. "Oh I need this done much sooner than that" (I reply, ok I will hold a spot for you on my quote list if you want to call around to see if someone else can do it sooner... Thats great, if not I will save your spot on my list". Or the panic "Cant you just get me on the calendar now? 3 friends already referred you to me and I know I want you to do the work"...

When I reply, via email I just direct the person to my website where I have a jobber request form. The form is set up to vet and streamline training the client to be clear with their goals, and gives my fee's for estimates and consultations (along with the volume of time on site). If I get the person on the phone I ask them to tell me a little about what they are looking for from me.
Since I have started doing this, requested estimates go WAY down but consults have gone WAY up. That is a long hauler game, where I don't sell anything and if the customer asks for prices on work my reply is "Talk it over with your partner, sleep on it. Since I've been here already if I hear back within a few days I won't need to come back for a estimate." This really dials in their goals and narrows the scope of work.

Somewhere in there I will mention a day rate annual service for pruning, but that most new clients want a fixed price for their first go. Day rates are nice, and I ask them to provide a list on their priorities, if there is anything remaining we start there on the next visit. If we finish and there is time we go to the b list.

I ask a lot of questions, about why they called and what their goals are. I often say ok, lets start there and you can show me, but if I see something on the way I'll speak up.

I painstakingly make it clear that on consults, its a one off job where I am solely there to educate and not do a sales pitch. Sometimes I will announce "I'm taking the consult hat off, and putting the salesman hat on real quick". This is in response to specific questions of how I'd go about x/y/z like rigging, access, or material handling. OR pricing questions "For a off the cuff, if it were me giving a quote I'd say XXXX$." This is where I really learn about if I will even get the job or not if I quoted, but the cool thing is I'm getting paid for my time regardless. Also I make a point that they bring their own notepad, and will provide resources and links for them to look into. This makes my advise more sound as it is not some hair brained abstract thing.

I could pull all my ad's at this point if I choose to, but I keep them up to a min just to make sure my contact info is easy to find.
 
I told a lot of people during the early days of Covid "stay in your house and look out your window...we can talk over the phone."
 
@L3VI , this is a cool thread. Thanks for posting! Man, I honestly think most of us contributing to this might laugh to see how they answer in another 5 or 10 years.

Felled my first tree in ‘99. I am beyond grateful for the support I got from my community since I incorporated in ‘08. I got into arboriculture following a huge moment of internal growth, so my convictions were damn strong back then. I have definitely chilled WAY out through the last decade

The nature of my market has a lot to do with how I feel about scoring work. When I started out, I was trying to do all the jobs requested, big or small, safe or hazard, and do it for a fraction of the “big companies”. What I didn’t realize back then was a good deal of the folks walking around in rags and driving a rusted out 20 year old Ford Ranger are actually rich as all get out. They can afford me making a true living wage for how I bust my azz! So I grew further and was forced to reckon with my prices. I have a family to feed, and luckily I can do that without sacrificing any of my values.

In fact, I feel like I’m retired and almost on cruise control despite the saddle of payments I donned in order to help my productivity. A few more years and financial stress is gonna be minimal. Hosanna! Haha!

So, I’m humble with the client which kinda goes against how I treat myself. I’m actually pretty hard on myself and I expect alot. So I work really hard for my clients and I think alot of them are now repeats that enjoy me being on the jobsite.

Repeat Clients: I make a bunch of suggestions as we walk around their properties.

New Clients: I try to feel out whether they give a F about me or even their trees. If I sense a true disconnect with them, I actually pour on the tree science and ecological values because I probably won’t get the job and I can at least leave them with something to ponder. Never know when someone might come around.
 
oceans said:
this is a cool thread. Thanks for posting!
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@oceans , I'm glad that you and some others have enjoyed reading these responses like I have! I'm stoked to hear your input as well. I agree, it's an ever changing philosophy. At least it is if you're really engaged in it.

PS, I love the way that you write, even for simple posts on forums, things like this:
oceans said:
despite the saddle of payments I donned
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Some time ago someone commented about a video and had noticed my lanyard on the right side of the saddle. You said something about how you did the same, to the effect of "lanyard on the right, quiver of saws on the left" That stuck with me, quiver of saws, I always think of that!
 
oceans said:
@L3VI ,

New Clients: I try to feel out whether they give a F about me or even their trees. If I sense a true disconnect with them, I actually pour on the tree science and ecological values because I probably won’t get the job and I can at least leave them with something to ponder. Never know when someone might come around.
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This is gold!
 
I love the treebuzz crew, new and old alike. I've gleaned a lot of little gold nuggets from this site that have helped me in life, threads like this in particular!
 
L3VI said:
I love the treebuzz crew, new and old alike. I've gleaned a lot of little gold nuggets from this site that have helped me in life, threads like this in particular!
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I remember meeting you a decade back at an Expo. You and your bro have made some very cool videos, and one I remember in particular when you knocked out a fairly spindly stem deep in a backyard grotto. I loved how the music sorta juxtaposed, and seeing how carefully and safely the climber worked his way up.

Come to think of it, I owe your bro a reply from the dust collecting video interview thread (or something like that). I was writing on the thread, but when he tagged me “it”, I was in a VERY hard place and I couldn’t bring myself to reply.
 
oceans said:
I remember meeting you a decade back at an Expo. You and your bro have made some very cool videos, and one I remember in particular when you knocked out a fairly spindly stem deep in a backyard grotto. I loved how the music sorta juxtaposed, and seeing how carefully and safely the climber worked his way up.

Come to think of it, I owe your bro a reply from the dust collecting video interview thread (or something like that). I was writing on the thread, but when he tagged me “it”, I was in a VERY hard place and I couldn’t bring myself to reply.
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Right on! We were inspired by your vids at the time, that was a great time for the buzz and tree climbing as well, a lot of cool things were happening and a lot of people here were making cool videos often.

Yep, I remember meeting you, Macswan, Tom Dunlap and Tony the author among many other legends of the tree world. That was a fun time.

The interview thread was fun, my bro has kind of dropped off the webs as I did for awhile too. We still work together every week in trees though. I hear you about the hard times, cycles of life and such. I'm glad to see that you're doing well right now (or it seems that way at least)
 
L3VI said:
Right on! We were inspired by your vids at the time, that was a great time for the buzz and tree climbing as well, a lot of cool things were happening and a lot of people here were making cool videos often.

Yep, I remember meeting you, Macswan, Tom Dunlap and Tony the author among many other legends of the tree world. That was a fun time.

The interview thread was fun, my bro has kind of dropped off the webs as I did for awhile too. We still work together every week in trees though. I hear you about the hard times, cycles of life and such. I'm glad to see that you're doing well right now (or it seems that way at least)
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Having a very restful day today, and kept thinking about this thread. My brain made an analogy that might hold true for the smaller outfits that aren’t necessarily bean counting closure rates (nothing wrong with that)…

But I started thinking of sales as a living, breathing algorithm. If you just be you, it would logically lead to working for folks like you in some way, and then they refer you to their friends that might be like you in some way. Just musing off the dome here, but I can never ever ever discount how important word-of-mouth referrals are for smaller companies in smaller towns, or even networks of like minded people in more densely populated areas.

I gotta say, the idea of poo poo the art of climbing is 100% BS! In some cases, climbing an unstable tree is definitely unsafe, but I definitely recall defending the act with people that heard otherwise. I would go on and on about daily gear Inspection, following the Z133, explaining CODIT in regard to an issue present, and even as far as comparing us to industrial rope access technicians.

But that was all before our massive mortality event effecting primarily Oak trees. For the first year or so following the event, I could still be found accessing and rigging by rope, but after the second year rolled around, the Spider Lift was truly the only safe option in most cases.
 
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