salary v. hourly pay

montanagrizzly

montanagrizzly

Last fall I decided to throw my resume out to a couple of tree co. and I recieved an offer that was better than what I was getting from my current employer. I intially accepted the offer and then resigned my position where I was employed. Well to my suprise, my boss made a counter offer and said he would put me on salary. He basically beat the other company's offer my a nickel if you break it down into a forty hour week. Salary seemed like a climbers dream, it meant a paycheck all year round. Well, since I have went on salary, there is rarely an eight hour day, and I can't even think about a forty hour week. Before, when I was on hourly pay, my boss did his best to keep my overtime to a minimum.

A lot of hours for the same paycheck every two weeks.

Did I make the right decision?
 
My boss looks at how many hours I have been putting in every quarter, if I'm over he reimburses me accordingly. Maybe you could suggest this to him.
 
Colorado Climber;

Technically, your employer probably owes you money for overtime even though you are salaried. See 'A Wage & Hour Law Primer' in TCI Magazine, April 2001, pp. 34 ff. and May 2001, pp. 52 ff.

If you want to read the letter of the law contact the US department of Labor and ask for 'Regulations Part 541' and 'Overtime Compensation Under the Fair Labor Standards Act'.

Sounds like your employer is taking advantage of things.

Mahk
 
Did you? You sound (no offense) like a whiner,you are a full grown man, I did the same ,after making over a grand a week and being home by 1:00 every day, my wife and I decided that I would get out from under the table after I said I wouldn't work more than 5 hours a day. I now make half of that. Am I happy? Yes! You are in it for the money , or the care of trees and a repected career. By the way, I now work about 10 to 12 hours a day, not including weekends( salary-no extra) and I love my job and my guys and my wife and three girls and have been climbing for 24 years and isa#449.
Jeff Lovstrom
 
Jeff,

No offense, but you have been climbing as long as I have been alive. I will not be climbing when I am 48, I will be running my own business and supervising and training my own employees. If you had any sense would have done the same a long time ago.

I love my job, no doubt about that. I am just trying to get some advise from some of the professionals who read these posts, and could weigh the pros and cons of my subject.

If you ask me, it sounds like that you are fooling yourself about your job and pay. If you work even half as hard as I do, making good money is a big reason you like your job.

Kind of sounds like you are the whiner.
 
hey...let's all whine for a while. man, the cold sure makes my nose red, I want more money, I want salary and hourly pay. I want a company car and a cell phone, no...a laptop so I can whine, I mean post messages from the treetops.
 
hold on there Colorodoclimber I am 34 climb every day and plan to do so for as long as I can,you know 70 or 80.I dont own my own buisness and dont have the worries that go with it .I make a good living,house ,cars kids the whole nine yards with no complaints.Owning your own buisness is great if thats what you want but its not for every one.Speak for yourself but dont criticize others.
 
Boo Hoo hoo hoo, "If you climbed as hard as I did","If you did this, that and everything I did". Quit your belly aching. Most of us bust our ass. Thats being a treeMAN.
Different strokes different folks different parts of the world.
Some days are early, others(in summer)are late. I get paid the same either way. Though those real long days need "incentives" to get done.
When I started subbing, I sent out a letter of qualif. to most of the tree companies in my area. Out of 80 letters I got 10 responses. Which 3 actually gave me a shot. Then more later.
I sub and have a small business. Best of both worlds, I think. Trying to sell your skills and knowledge to other tree co. and get paid for it will probably decide whether you sub or not. Alot of co. cant justify bringing a sub in.
Alot of co. around me look at the $$$.The final check to write out to 1 guy. That makes some guys cry. What they dont look at is that they only have to write out 1 thing. Not workers comp. taxes, ins.,matching this that. T&M spent on training, equipment and especially that whiny soft treeboy. Add all that up(oh and the time spent on paperwork)and I bet its real close or better to hand out one check at the end of the day. There is also the fact that accident rates and injuries go down when the right person is on the job.
I'm still fighting some of these pukes to pay and understand that they are getting a top notch climber. In the same matter, bigger trees/jobs require more pay. After all the co. pricess accordingly, share the wealth.
I had a job that I priced to have a buddy of mine(fully insured and equipped)come out for 2 days. Bunch of removals around a house. We blew the job out in one day(wood removed and stumps to be done the next day). He got 600.00 for the day. I still made couple hundred off him and plenty on the job. The moral is, there is money to be made subbing and in tree work in general. Dont sell yourself short. If your the treeMAN you say you are.
Sorry bout all the blabber. Ive been subbing for awhile and still hate fighting for good pay.I'TS AN UNDERPAID INDUSTRY.
Later
 
D-Kraus: I read your post and figured you're one of the few people an employer would compensate in this manner. I read Mahk's post and decided you work for a good employer aside from you stating the employer is compensating you. I learned a little something about salaried help from these 2 posts.

I've never worked as or with a sub-contractor climber who didn't own a special piece of equipment like a crane.

Joe
 
Roachy,

I didn't mean to offend anybody else, that guy just pissed me off and so I said some harsh things. On the east coast, a climber can probably make a pretty good living without owning a company. So to that, I apologize.

Over hear, its a little bit different. Unless you are a climbing champ, who has done everything, pay is not the greatest.

I am not one of those hacks who just buy a truck and a trailer and call themselves an arborist. I will learn as much as I can before I will ever start up a business.\

I have much respect for anybody who takes pride in what they do in this business. Those are the people I want to learn from.
 
That guy just pissed me off"--Me? I told you,I meant no offense, You said if I had any sense, I would think like you. Sorry, you talk alot about money and not climbing- I love climbing without the headaches of being the owner of a company (which you failed to realize maybe I have been where you want to go) You said you dont want to be climbing when you are 48 years old-- I want to climb until I die.
Anyway-
Jeff
 
No offense, CoClimber, but you are pretty whiny. Stop to think for a minute and respect other people's paths and journeys in tree care. So what if they are not for you. For these people, it works. You sound young, think you are great cuz you have climbed daily for 6yrs tops?? Some of these guys have done that daily for 20+. We might all learn something.

A lot of people here have taken career paths I wouldn't touch but I respect their opinions. Things like debt tolerance vary from person to person.

The fact that you think owning/starting your own biz is such a utopia, lets me know how little you actually know about it. It is hard and something that I really take pride in. I have kept my biz running for the last 3 years. I often look at the guys with jobs and am jealous.

Owning your own business can be one of the lonliest places in the world. Good luck

We all work hard so lets all keep a positive attitude.

Nathan
 
I Think that you guys are right. I never speak up at work, so when I found tree buzz, I thought, here is a place to vent. I am sorry if I offended anybody, I will definately respect everybody's opinion. I know I must come off as a young punk, but thats not the case. I go to this site every day to learn and hear about what others climbers encounter day in and day out.

I realize that starting a company is no cake walk. I know that I will be in debt for at least the first two years. A company is not about the money for me, its about making a name for myself.

Thanks for all of the constructive critisim.
 
coclimber,
i am a young climber, but have been pruning trees for 10 yrs now. i have never been a hack, but have worked for some hack owners and have worked for some quality owners - they all had one thing in common - the headaches. im sure as someone said that ownership is lonely - it sure appears that way to me. the pressure of knowing other peoples livelyhood depends on you - not for me. but to answer your salary question... i think hrly wage is better for me. when proposed with salary in the past i have renegotiated with a minor hrly raise an had other benefits thrown in like a week longer paid vaccation or profit sharing. your base pay, be it salary or hrly, is not where your negotiating has to end.
 
Geez guys, lets play nice in the sandbox :) Think twice before you get the flames going.

A number of years ago I blended my company into another company. Not a partnership fortunately. I was on a salary and the expectation was to get comp time off for any plus forty hour weeks, in the winter. That was fine with me even at straight time. Things were going along fine until I asked for a couple of days pay after I used my vacation time. Much grumbling on the owner's part. I had documented all of my hours in my day planner. Later on I needed to finish up re-roffing my house so I asked for more time back. Didn't come on the check so we had a bit of a heated "chat" Then, tow days before Christmas I got a "present" Walking papers. By my tally he owed me close to$6,000. We went to conciliation court and I was given $3k.

Am I whining? Maybe. Hard to let go of three grand don't you think? I trusted the guy and he ripped me off. Salary has the potential for being a good program if the arc of hours are spread out for the whole year. I'm guessing that you have slow time in the winter like here in Mpls. That's what I was looking forward to. bust my butt in the summer and ski or play in the winter. That winter was a survival experience.

Take some time and work out a discussion with your boss. Talk with people in other industries to see how salaried employees are compensated.

Tom
 
What do you think the average hourly rate is for a good climber across the board? i'm just curiouse. I'll tell you what I make and thats $21.00 hr plus all the benies of Medical . Vac and sickleave. and comptime.I dont know if this is good or bad because I have never worked for anyone else .

PVT is a whole different story for me.I make a lot more.

Greg








Greg
 
Greg,

You're making a good wage!

Without taking into consideration the cost of living, its too hard to make a coast to coast comparison. I've done some investigations into moving and have found some good web sites that compare a lot of variables. Generally, CA has the highest cost of living, as you know.

Tom
 
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