Rope Flattening Issues

@Willber thanks for the feedback, yeah I climb SRS like 75% of the time so might make more sense to prioritize those qualities. I milked the blue moon like 5 times this evening and only got an inch off it, seems like climbing has been doing that well enough. It's been working fine since i ran a munter and a lil chalk though. If it starts to be problematic again I'll probably end up getting a different rope. That's interesting about the Beal, kinda leaning towards xstatic since I'm not climbing MRS as much. As long as it'll hold the occasional Blake's.
 
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@Lignotuber I've seen on TreeStuff and ArbSession that people like Xstatic, I think it's about as static as BlueMoon.
I guess when using SRT it isn't as important to have a splice, as with MRS. Xstatic can only have a sewn eye.
I did feel it had better grip than all other ropes except, a 3braid, and a technora covered rope.

But, what I don't understand is, if a manufacture is going to create a rope that cannot be spliced, why not make a static rope like the 11mm Beal Access rope having the cover tightly woven over core, but in 12mm (optimum diameter)
Because the Beal rope would never flatten, so it always had a round profile, meaning consistent grip, where you're not gripping an oval profile. It would self tend better than any other arborists rope. It would work well in the ZZ.
Though it might wear though the popular SRT rope climbing devices, that seem to be designed, to need the rope to flatten, to grip the rope properly.

@Lignotuber I might just chalk up my new Drenaline, so it will expand/fluff out the core faster, also if chalk gets worked in there first, there won't be much room for silica dust. Silica is about twice as hard as calcite, which is apparently what chalk is.
What kind of chalk powder did you use? I was thinking of just using chalk powder for a chalk line.

Oh, I was thinking, it seems only nylon cores expand/fluff out, maybe because nylon is much more porous than poly.
And, the microscopic particles of dirt, fill the pores causing it to expand, more than poly would.
And, maybe more complex structure of twisted multi cores and braided cores, allow for more expansion, than what you might get with Xstatic's fully parallel strand core.
 
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Twisted, parallel strand cored ropes can be spliced, there are at least three different methods.
Braided cores will want return to round, parallel strands don’t, they are dependent on the braided cover to retain the roundness.
Not sure what is meant by the core fluffing up, have never see that from used rope core. Always being contained and compressed while stretching shouldn’t cause it to get fluffy.
Chalk would only stay on the outside, no way to get it to the core with the tight braiding of rope covers. However you were getting the chalk on the rope might have just been relaxing the cover, allowing it to turn to round.
 
@Brocky Well, I never saw my friend's Velocity when it was new, but understand Voyager is the same rope, just larger diameter. When my Voyager was new, it could easily be folded over on itself completely, so the folded "eye" would close completely.
My friend said he never milked his Velocity, nor did he cut any cover off that might have milked naturally from using the rope.
He actually had the Rope Logic factory ID shrink on the end till a few months ago.
I assume his Velocity was the same as my Voyager when new, they're the same construction, according to Samson.

His velocity is over 5yrs old now, and it will not fold over on itself, nor does it flatten in the ZZ, like my much newer Voyager. When you compress it between you thumb and finger, it's hard to compress minimally,

After been well used it seems to have caused the core to expand and/or caused the surface of strands of the core to build up with lodged microscopic debris, or the micro debris abrading the surface of each or enough strands, to cause burring of the surface, that would make increased surface area (possibly) throughout the whole core, simulating a "fluffing out" or increase in volume, so to speak. Causing the core to have more pressure against the inside of the cover, like more water pressure in a hose.
This is just me trying to explain an account for the seemingly increase in mass/volume of the core.
What else might cause this increase in volume of the core?

Makes sense about what you said, about a parallel core roundness being dependent upon cover pressure, though if parallel cores increase in mass as much as braided ones do, hopefully just the increase in pressure of the parallel core, will cause it to stay more round with the increase in core pressure on cover.
Good to know about braided cores wanting to stay round, hence after Velocity was fully "broken in" it stays favorably round.
Hopefully Drenaline will want to stay round, even though, not a braided core, it's a core of 9 symmetrically arranged, opposing, twisted cores.
 
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Brocky said:
Twisted, parallel strand cored ropes can be spliced, there are at least three different methods.
Braided cores will want return to round, parallel strands don’t, they are dependent on the braided cover to retain the roundness.
Not sure what is meant by the core fluffing up, have never see that from used rope core. Always being contained and compressed while stretching shouldn’t cause it to get fluffy.
Chalk would only stay on the outside, no way to get it to the core with the tight braiding of rope covers. However you were getting the chalk on the rope might have just been relaxing the cover, allowing it to turn to round.
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Thanks Brocky regarding the chalk, I'm 99.99% sure the change was due to the chalk itself. I even tried a small sample section without agitation beforehand as well as previously trying to relax the rope. I'm not really concerned with impact to the core or rope strength, i am slightly concerned by potentially accelerated wear on mechanical devices but it's probably negligible.
 
@Lignotuber I concur, the very fine particles of chalk are either filling in voids between the cover and core and/or voids in the core itself. Reducing flattening of the rope.

Yea, premature rope wear from chalk inside, might take a year of life off the rope, and the rope could easily be in service for 6yrs (MRS). Not much of a financial worry. Though we know if chalk is getting in there, silica particles from dirt and sand, have been getting in all arborist rope since, the dawn of tree climbing using ropes.
Chalk is much hard than poly, so it could cause significant wear on rope devices, which have limited grip mass, meaning a much shorter life span.

But, I would use an air gun nozzle type blower, from an air compressor, to maybe blow the surface length of the rope to, remove surface chalk particles, where if left there, could significantly wear the contacts on the Akimbo.
Because, chalk may cling to the outside of the cover, more likely than natural silica particles.
 
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How the hell do you have a rope in service for 6 years. Most I get out of a rope is 2 years ....then it gets all crappy. But I wrench only. No mechanicals anymore. The rope is still usable after 2 years but it's softness and smooth hitch running are fading. I just cut a new rope and put it into play. Relegate that rope to sappy trees/or big removals.
 
@islandarb Well, it's my friends Velocity, that is quite well used, or some might say worn, but it's never been used with ascenders of any kind, so the rope may have less pick wear than ones you use with foot ascender(s), for 2yrs.
He used the Zillon with it for 4yrs, then the last year the ZZ. It's about 12mm in diameter, has great grip with bare hands, shows know signs of breaking, and doesn't flatten like most new ropes.
So, he prefers it over a new rope, and it runs well in the ZZ.

It is quite a good feature rope, I just wanted a higher braid count, and less stretch.

Yea, we will use older ropes for rigging or pulling. But, we always only use one favored rope, for all MRS work.
 
Lignotuber said:
Heard good things about drenaline, I wonder how it compares to xstatic. Sounds like xstatic is really not that stiff and works alright in MRS as well. I think I'm between those two ropes next.
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X static will stiffen up. Dremaline is a wee bit less stiff. Milks (milks core strands oddly unevenly) and is pretty bouncy on anything over 50’
 
Willber said:
@Brocky Well, I never saw my friend's Velocity when it was new, but understand Voyager is the same rope, just larger diameter. When my Voyager was new, it could easily be folded over on itself completely, so the folded "eye" would close completely.
My friend said he never milked his Velocity, nor did he cut any cover off that might have milked naturally from using the rope.
He actually had the Rope Logic factory ID shrink on the end till a few months ago.
I assume his Velocity was the same as my Voyager when new, they're the same construction, according to Samson.

His velocity is over 5yrs old now, and it will not fold over on itself, nor does it flatten in the ZZ, like my much newer Voyager. When you compress it between you thumb and finger, it's hard to compress minimally,

After been well used it seems to have caused the core to expand and/or caused the surface of strands of the core to build up with lodged microscopic debris, or the micro debris abrading the surface of each or enough strands, to cause burring of the surface, that would make increased surface area (possibly) throughout the whole core, simulating a "fluffing out" or increase in volume, so to speak. Causing the core to have more pressure against the inside of the cover, like more water pressure in a hose.
This is just me trying to explain an account for the seemingly increase in mass/volume of the core.
What else might cause this increase in volume of the core?

Makes sense about what you said, about a parallel core roundness being dependent upon cover pressure, though if parallel cores increase in mass as much as braided ones do, hopefully just the increase in pressure of the parallel core, will cause it to stay more round with the increase in core pressure on cover.
Good to know about braided cores wanting to stay round, hence after Velocity was fully "broken in" it stays favorably round.
Hopefully Drenaline will want to stay round, even though, not a braided core, it's a core of 9 symmetrically arranged, opposing, twisted cores.
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Velocity and voyager are different ropes. Different coatings, dyes and strand tensions during the manufacturing process can make significant differences in ropes of the same size and construction.
Different diameters makes for a much bigger difference.
 
Tidbit. Grillon lanyard rope, white, could very well be nylon and it's failure mode is it slowly swells up and runs too tight through the device. Fresh replacement is notably skinnier and runs better when new. FWIW
 
One of the many samples I bought, was Poison Moon, by Yale, Rope.com said it is the same rope as BlueMoon just different color scheme, but clearly would flatten less, when pressed between thumb and finger, seemed to have a bulkier core.
I see what evo says about difference in seemingly similar ropes.

Maybe try Poison Moon, it likely will flatten less, and is supposed to be same construction as BM which is a time tested rope, many climbers prefer it as their main climb line. BM does have a very durable cover.
I bought 200ft of HyperClimb, it is more like a 11.6mm rope, BM is more a true 11.7mm. I personally don't like a narrow climbing line. My HyperClimb also flattened a bit, and stayed oval through the rest of the climb.
It seems HyperClimb may not be time tested enough.

It does seem though, that nylon cores, expand more than poly cores, after the ropes are well used.
I like that aspect about nylon cores, they end up flattening less, as the core expands.
Though, I haven't used an old BlueMoon rope, to see if it flattens less than when it was new.
 
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Hyperclimb is one of my favourite lines of all time. Not the orange only the purple. That rope is insanely strong and durable. Wrenching that rope is smooth as glass. Not switching anytime soon. But will try some of the newer courant static ropes when I travel to the UK in July. My old mates have some for me to try when we do a rec climb.
 
Why do people worry about flattening lines. Seems weird. I climbed on runners exclusively for years, all ropes flattened. Mechanicals novelty wore out fast. A wrench is just so freakin smooth and I love rope on rope.
 
islandarb said:
Why do people worry about flattening lines. Seems weird. I climbed on runners exclusively for years, all ropes flattened. Mechanicals novelty wore out fast. A wrench is just so freakin smooth and I love rope on rope.
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I generally wouldn't care, just that friction hitches wouldn't grab or run smoothly in SRS after flattening with mechanicals. Not being able to switch on demand is what bugged me. The feel is a lil off putting as well but not a big deal.
 
Lignotuber said:
I generally wouldn't care, just that friction hitches wouldn't grab or run smoothly in SRS after flattening with mechanicals. Not being able to switch on demand is what bugged me. The feel is a lil off putting as well but not a big deal.
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Bro just buy a new rope. It is cheap and wrench away. Thank me later.
 
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