- Location
- AZ
Root Pruning
- Thread starter Rocks_and_Trees
- Start date
- Location
- AZ
- Location
- AZ
- Location
- AZ
- Location
- AZ
- Location
- AZ
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
On that first one there was a root in the middle that grew away from the stem; maybe coulda just taken the wayward laterals and left the tip?
Tree 2 still seems to have an sgr, embedded, that could come out with a chisel.
Yeah I root prune a lot--hard and dirty work but someone's gotta do it.
Side note--word has gotten out in the NC nursery industry here that trees with root defects are being sent back, so at their annual meeting there will be a 4 hour panel talk on how to avoid that unwelcome scenario.
It seems that the message is getting out.
Tree 2 still seems to have an sgr, embedded, that could come out with a chisel.
Yeah I root prune a lot--hard and dirty work but someone's gotta do it.
Side note--word has gotten out in the NC nursery industry here that trees with root defects are being sent back, so at their annual meeting there will be a 4 hour panel talk on how to avoid that unwelcome scenario.
It seems that the message is getting out.
- Location
- AZ
[ QUOTE ]
On that first one there was a root in the middle that grew away from the stem; maybe coulda just taken the wayward laterals and left the tip?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's hard to see from the photo, but that root was badly overlapping and bearing down on a larger root which I deemed a more important root which was anchoring the tree.
More could have probably been done on the second, but just concentrated on the two girdlers. That tree was heading for a strangulation!
Thank for the comments. I just saw Ed Gilman a few months ago speak on roots, so I was psyched!
On that first one there was a root in the middle that grew away from the stem; maybe coulda just taken the wayward laterals and left the tip?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's hard to see from the photo, but that root was badly overlapping and bearing down on a larger root which I deemed a more important root which was anchoring the tree.
More could have probably been done on the second, but just concentrated on the two girdlers. That tree was heading for a strangulation!
Thank for the comments. I just saw Ed Gilman a few months ago speak on roots, so I was psyched!
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
More could have probably been done on the second, but just concentrated on the two girdlers.
[/ QUOTE ]And when will the deeper one be done? you might get hit by a bus tomorrow, and the next guy would miss it. While there, do it all! 9if tree will tolerate)[ QUOTE ]
Thank for the comments. I just saw Ed Gilman a few months ago speak on roots, so I was psyched!
[/ QUOTE ]Ed's talking about pruning in the nursery, right? Sooner the better...I noticed that was on the agenda at FLISA in Key West, which is a must-see. Can't wait to experience that place again!
More could have probably been done on the second, but just concentrated on the two girdlers.
[/ QUOTE ]And when will the deeper one be done? you might get hit by a bus tomorrow, and the next guy would miss it. While there, do it all! 9if tree will tolerate)[ QUOTE ]
Thank for the comments. I just saw Ed Gilman a few months ago speak on roots, so I was psyched!
[/ QUOTE ]Ed's talking about pruning in the nursery, right? Sooner the better...I noticed that was on the agenda at FLISA in Key West, which is a must-see. Can't wait to experience that place again!
Attachments
- Location
- AZ
[ QUOTE ]
Ed's talking about pruning in the nursery, right? Sooner the better...I noticed that was on the agenda at FLISA in Key West, which is a must-see. Can't wait to experience that place again!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not neccessarily pruning in the nursery, but pruning by shearing and other techniques to correct structural root problems that occurred in the nursery from being grown in containers.
He also discussed root pruning on trees already in the ground through root crown excavation. In Ed Gilman style, he had a ton of pictures and some scientific research data pertaining to the techniques and effects of root pruning. It was great, I could listen to that stuff all day.
Ed's talking about pruning in the nursery, right? Sooner the better...I noticed that was on the agenda at FLISA in Key West, which is a must-see. Can't wait to experience that place again!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not neccessarily pruning in the nursery, but pruning by shearing and other techniques to correct structural root problems that occurred in the nursery from being grown in containers.
He also discussed root pruning on trees already in the ground through root crown excavation. In Ed Gilman style, he had a ton of pictures and some scientific research data pertaining to the techniques and effects of root pruning. It was great, I could listen to that stuff all day.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Ok guys, I have a question for you.
I have a customer with 3 elms that are about 8 inches in diameter. They were all planted about 6 inches too deep and all tipped over recently in some heavy winds.
Along with being planted too deep, they were then covered with sod right up to the trunk, adding another inch or two of soil. The 3 drip emmiters are right at the base and grown into the roots so the rootball is flooded daily. The original stake is still tied to the main stem and the tape is girdled into the tree. This scenerio os played out ALL over the valley.
I capped the irrigation lines and hope they dont leak. I told my customer that they should have the landscaper remove them since future growth of the tree will surly break them apart and leak.
I removed the stakes and restaked them appropiatly.
I have dug the soil away from the trunk so there is a nice taper to the trunk and some roots comming off the side.
How far out do I take the soil down?
Do I install a dry well to hold back the dirt?
What do I do with all of the exposed surface roots that grew into the soil above propper grade?
My replacement elm was way too deep in its own 24 inch box.
I planted it to the appropriate level but as with the others, I am left with alot of roots that were in the mulch above propper grade.
What do I do with them?
Why cant nurseries use containers that are wider and resemble a trees natural rootzone? I know that they would take up more space but it seems like there would be a market for trees that dont come with gridled roots!
Mabey a rant post is needed.
I have a customer with 3 elms that are about 8 inches in diameter. They were all planted about 6 inches too deep and all tipped over recently in some heavy winds.
Along with being planted too deep, they were then covered with sod right up to the trunk, adding another inch or two of soil. The 3 drip emmiters are right at the base and grown into the roots so the rootball is flooded daily. The original stake is still tied to the main stem and the tape is girdled into the tree. This scenerio os played out ALL over the valley.
I capped the irrigation lines and hope they dont leak. I told my customer that they should have the landscaper remove them since future growth of the tree will surly break them apart and leak.
I removed the stakes and restaked them appropiatly.
I have dug the soil away from the trunk so there is a nice taper to the trunk and some roots comming off the side.
How far out do I take the soil down?
Do I install a dry well to hold back the dirt?
What do I do with all of the exposed surface roots that grew into the soil above propper grade?
My replacement elm was way too deep in its own 24 inch box.
I planted it to the appropriate level but as with the others, I am left with alot of roots that were in the mulch above propper grade.
What do I do with them?
Why cant nurseries use containers that are wider and resemble a trees natural rootzone? I know that they would take up more space but it seems like there would be a market for trees that dont come with gridled roots!
Mabey a rant post is needed.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
mmmm gridled roots
- Location
- Austin, TX
[ QUOTE ]
Why cant nurseries use containers that are wider and resemble a trees natural rootzone? I know that they would take up more space but it seems like there would be a market for trees that dont come with gridled roots!
Mabey a rant post is needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
A few researchers--I believe Gilman is one--have been going the other direction, sort of. Since we know the vertical containers will lead to circling roots, they are trying to get nurseries to shave the root balls each time they repot, then they do the same at planting time. A small pot might only lose a half-inch or so, while a big container might lose a few inches. Apparently it is ow possible to buy trees that have been treated this way throughout their lives in parts of California and Florida. I'm pretty sure we still can't get them here in TX. The result is that the circling roots are removed, and they say there is still plenty of fine root growth inside the cut so that the trees quickly reach the edge of the new pots (which you can see for yourself by just raking off some soil from the trimmed root ball).
If you buy trees that have been girdled at every container change, is it still worthwhile to shave the root ball before you plant? I don't think any research addresses this question, but my guess is it's bound to be better than nothing.
Also in this vein, check out the Dec. "Arborist News" for an article on bare-rooting trees before transplanting.
edit--just realized this was following a bit of a derail--sorry, rocks.
Why cant nurseries use containers that are wider and resemble a trees natural rootzone? I know that they would take up more space but it seems like there would be a market for trees that dont come with gridled roots!
Mabey a rant post is needed.
[/ QUOTE ]
A few researchers--I believe Gilman is one--have been going the other direction, sort of. Since we know the vertical containers will lead to circling roots, they are trying to get nurseries to shave the root balls each time they repot, then they do the same at planting time. A small pot might only lose a half-inch or so, while a big container might lose a few inches. Apparently it is ow possible to buy trees that have been treated this way throughout their lives in parts of California and Florida. I'm pretty sure we still can't get them here in TX. The result is that the circling roots are removed, and they say there is still plenty of fine root growth inside the cut so that the trees quickly reach the edge of the new pots (which you can see for yourself by just raking off some soil from the trimmed root ball).
If you buy trees that have been girdled at every container change, is it still worthwhile to shave the root ball before you plant? I don't think any research addresses this question, but my guess is it's bound to be better than nothing.
Also in this vein, check out the Dec. "Arborist News" for an article on bare-rooting trees before transplanting.
edit--just realized this was following a bit of a derail--sorry, rocks.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Thank you Babberney. I will give it a good "shave"
I really regret missing Eds talk when he was in town.
I really regret missing Eds talk when he was in town.
- Location
- AZ
[ QUOTE ]
If you buy trees that have been girdled at every container change, is it still worthwhile to shave the root ball before you plant? I don't think any research addresses this question, but my guess is it's bound to be better than nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, Mr. Gilman addressed that very topic. I believe he recommended pruning past the original deflection.
Yeah Jesse, I know what you mean about the roots sticking out when reducing grade for trees planted too deep. Not sure what to do about those, but I have pruned them in the past as well as trying to leave them covered other times.
If you buy trees that have been girdled at every container change, is it still worthwhile to shave the root ball before you plant? I don't think any research addresses this question, but my guess is it's bound to be better than nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, Mr. Gilman addressed that very topic. I believe he recommended pruning past the original deflection.
Yeah Jesse, I know what you mean about the roots sticking out when reducing grade for trees planted too deep. Not sure what to do about those, but I have pruned them in the past as well as trying to leave them covered other times.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
about the roots sticking out when reducing grade for trees planted too deep. Not sure what to do about those, but I have pruned them in the past as well as trying to leave them covered other times.
[/ QUOTE ]yes it depends--if the tree can't afford to lose them, then i try to make a 45 degree slope down to the flare. fill or not? ideal i think to leave open and train owners/landscapers to blow leaves etc out of there.
yeah, i know. but rocks can trap moisture too.
the pruning/shaving thing at every pot change is what the european standard mandates. anyone who cares about this please contact your ansi rep and tell em they gotta catch up.
In NC the growers are having a 4 hour session on what to do about defective trees being returned. thanks to all who stand firm on this advice to clients. the growers feel it hitting their pocketbook so they are finally paying attention.
see page 6 here www.ncnla.com/pdfs/2010-greengrowin-schedule.pdf
make it happen in your state!
about the roots sticking out when reducing grade for trees planted too deep. Not sure what to do about those, but I have pruned them in the past as well as trying to leave them covered other times.
[/ QUOTE ]yes it depends--if the tree can't afford to lose them, then i try to make a 45 degree slope down to the flare. fill or not? ideal i think to leave open and train owners/landscapers to blow leaves etc out of there.
yeah, i know. but rocks can trap moisture too.
the pruning/shaving thing at every pot change is what the european standard mandates. anyone who cares about this please contact your ansi rep and tell em they gotta catch up.
In NC the growers are having a 4 hour session on what to do about defective trees being returned. thanks to all who stand firm on this advice to clients. the growers feel it hitting their pocketbook so they are finally paying attention.
see page 6 here www.ncnla.com/pdfs/2010-greengrowin-schedule.pdf
make it happen in your state!
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