Roe v Wade overturned

[climbhightree]

Off topic bashing...Please. A few minutes of research is all it takes to understand that a majority of the states with the highest per capita murder rates are republican run, yet you are here making make intellectually dishonest and misleading statements to the contrary...

Actually I asked questions and I didn't make statements towards the gun deaths. I did say my beliefs on the obvious decay of society morals.

I ask you to present some facts for discussion, like I have earlier (some that didn't even fully support my side). All you post was a news article that had no statistical data other then a total. Post your data you eluded to above.

Have I called you dishonest or misleading, or saying dishonest or misleading things? That is bashing and making it personal.

 

[climbhightree]

I am carry on a conversation with a fella who suggested that a woman "just needs to keep her legs closed" and your here asking for some respect and data? Really?

LOL another complete misquote. You as bad as the media. Show me where I said those exact words, in your quote.

 

[rico]

LOL another complete misquote. You as bad as the media. Show me where I said those exact words, in your quote.

"They have a right to not spread their legs." Your exact words, and no doubt a proud moment for a fella such as yourself.

The fact that you are playing semantics with those words and their intent speaks volumes.

 

[climbhightree]

I'm still looking around and getting stats.

But here is a homicide rate by state per 100,000


Homicide rate by city

 

[climbhightree]

"They have a right to not spread their legs." Your exact words, and no doubt a proud moment for a fella such as yourself.

The fact that you are playing semantics with those words and their intent speaks volumes.

Your the one that changed the wording not me. And what I said is technically true...just like sex = a baby. If someone is forced to spread their legs it is called raped and is punishable by law. If someone chooses to have sex (by their own rights) doesn't mean that they shouldn't have to deal with the consequences if they get pregnant, and definitely doesn't give them the right to kill an innocent life just because they regret their decision to have sex.

 

[climbhightree]

Oh and BTW the responsibility goes both ways. As a male one should not be having sex unless you are ready to be a dad (financially, mentally etc). It is not all on the females, both sexes need educated on responsibilities

 

[Dan Cobb]

I understand the difference of opinions. I am curious if all those who are anti-abortion/pro-birth believe that life begins at conception. Seems like you would if you oppose abortion in all cases.

Personally, I don't see a tiny clump of cells as a human being, but as a potential human being. A sperm cell is potentially half a human being. What's next? Prison time for jerking off?

 

[rico]

What's next? Prison time for jerking off?

 

[climbhightree]

I understand the difference of opinions. I am curious if all those who are anti-abortion/pro-birth believe that life begins at conception. Seems like you would if you oppose abortion in all cases.

Personally, I don't see a tiny clump of cells as a human being, but as a potential human being.

At what point, for you, does it go from a potential human to a human? Pain, heartbeat, movement, birth?

To directly answer your question, yes I believe abortion is wrong in all cases after conception. In a rare case where the female's health is of concern, every effort should be made to save the life of the female along with saving the live of the baby. If every effort is made to save the life of the baby, and it still dies then it wasn't an abortion. An unintentional miscarriage is not an abortion.

To me a life is a life no matter what stage, age, mental capacity you are in.

 

[rico]

Actually I asked questions

"How many of those deaths were in democrat run cities, where gun control is already extremely tight (therefore gun control is not the problem)?"

Another pathetic attempt at running from your own words and your intent...

The thought of someone like yourself having my back if/when the feathers started flying sends a shiver down my spine.

 

[climbhightree]

Ok here are the top ten states and their govenors

Mississippi (Death rate 20.5) - R since 2004 (Since 1865 D - 26, R - 13)

Louisiana (Death rate 19.9) - D since 2016 (Since 1865 D - 34, R - 10)

Alabama (Death rate 14.2) - R since 2011 (Since 1868 D - 33, R - 7)

Missouri (Death rate 14) - R since 2017 (Since 1865 D - 26, R - 13)

Arkansas (Death rate 13) - R since 2015 (Since 1868 D - 39 , R - 7)

South Carolina (Death rate 12.7) - R since 2003 (Since 1865 D - 35, R - 9)

Tennessee (Death rate 11.5) - R since 2011 (Since 1865 D - 28 , R - 11)

Maryland (Death rate 11.4) - R since 2015 (Since 1865 D - 23, R - 9)

Illinois (Death rate 11.2) - D since 2019 (Since 1865 D - 11, R - 21)

New Mexico (Death rate 10.8) - D since 2019 (Since statehood in 1912 D - 20, R - 12)

 

[Stumpsprouts]

On that basis, the legality of abortion, like many other issues, should be determined by the individual states, not the federal government.

I can get behind that.

The problem isn't guns. The problem is the break down of families and society morals where kids don't have the support and don't know how to deal with not getting what they want or feel they deserve.

I can dig that too. This is exactly why I’m for choices in planning to have a family or not. To me abortions can save families. It can keep a family from sinking financially and emotionally due to their kid having a kid. It can keep someone from having a child at the wrong time, allowing them to later have a family at the right time when they had a supportive partner and financial stability or kicked a drug habit or whatever it may be. It keeps kids from being born to parents who knew they weren’t ready for it but had no choice, and become neglected and unsupported just in the way you describe.

Thanks for "sharing the arrows", as a news commentator I appreciate often says . She also says we are to "respectfully raise a ruckus", which I will continue to do for the lives all of the innocent, especially those who can't for themselves.

pew pew! Jk just remember this is y’all’s victory lap.

Oh and BTW the responsibility goes both ways. As a male one should not be having sex unless you are ready to be a dad (financially, mentally etc). It is not all on the females, both sexes need educated on responsibilities

Can we also agree that family planning measures are not infallible? Condoms break, birth control pills may not work, same with IUDs even vasectomies. Are you seriously telling me we should all be celibate unless we are ready to bring a child into this world?

Watching my wife go through four days of labor and barely make it to the other side definitely galvanized my support for choices when it comes to carrying a baby to term or not. It changes your body forever. It puts strains on your organs and can be life threatening. To say nothing of the emotional pain you can go through by carrying an unwanted, or wanted, pregnancy to term. It should be a choice to become a parent.

 

[Dan Cobb]

At what point, for you, does it go from a potential human to a human? Pain, heartbeat, movement, birth?
...
To me a life is a life no matter what stage, age, mental capacity you are in.

I don't put an exact moment on when a potential human becomes a human. I don't believe it's at the zygote stage. Nor blastula or gastrula. I do think an argument for before viability outside the womb is reasonable. I don't think movement is a good criteria; heck, sperm flagellate. I don't like heartbeat as a criterion. Why not choose the pancreas or the liver instead of the heart? (Perhaps because we use the absence of heartbeat as an easy way to diagnose death although you don’t die instantaneously if your heart stops beating.) Pain seems to be a fairly reasonable criterion. I think a response to a basic stimulus is indicative of being more than a clump of cells. Consider: can you kill something you can't hurt? No one has a problem with removal of a cyst or many other things made of living cells.

Interesting that you mentioned "mental capacity" since that comes into play late in the game.

Just some of my beliefs, formed from my life experiences, which are science heavy. I understand that others, especially those with very religious life experiences, see things differently.

 

[rico]

Ok here are the top ten states and their govenors

Mississippi (Death rate 20.5) - R since 2004 (Since 1865 D - 26, R - 13)

Louisiana (Death rate 19.9) - D since 2016 (Since 1865 D - 34, R - 10)

Alabama (Death rate 14.2) - R since 2011 (Since 1868 D - 33, R - 7)

Missouri (Death rate 14) - R since 2017 (Since 1865 D - 26, R - 13)

Arkansas (Death rate 13) - R since 2015 (Since 1868 D - 39 , R - 7)

South Carolina (Death rate 12.7) - R since 2003 (Since 1865 D - 35, R - 9)

Tennessee (Death rate 11.5) - R since 2011 (Since 1865 D - 28 , R - 11)

Maryland (Death rate 11.4) - R since 2015 (Since 1865 D - 23, R - 9)

Illinois (Death rate 11.2) - D since 2019 (Since 1865 D - 11, R - 21)

New Mexico (Death rate 10.8) - D since 2019 (Since statehood in 1912 D - 20, R - 12)

In 2020 8 out of the top 10 states with the highest per capita gun deaths were run by republicans. Doesn't really jive with the misleading narrative you were trying to sell earlier..

 

[climbhightree]

Top ten cities and their mayors

St. Louis, MO (Homicide rate 65) - D since 1949 (Since 1865 D - 19 , R - 10)

New Orleans, LA (Homicide rate 56) - D since 1872 (Since 1865 D - 31 , R - 2)

Detriot, MI (Homicide rate 48.6) - D since 1962

Richmond, VA (Homicide rate 38.8) - D since 1990 (Since 1865 D - 35, R - 2)

Rochester, NY (Homicide rate 38.4) - D since 1974 ( Since 1865 D - 16, R - 25)

Compton, CA (Homicide rate 35.5) - D since 2013 (Since 1924 D - 10, R - 5, no party - 4)

Washington, DC (Homicide rate 32.2) - D since 1961

Alanta, GA (Homicide rate 30.7) - D since 1879

Indianapolis, IN (Homicide rate 30.3) - D since 2016 ( Since 1865 D - 19, R - 22)

Oakland, CA (Homicide rate 30.1) - D

 

[climbhightree]

In 2020 8 out of the top 10 states with the highest per capita gun deaths were run by republicans. Doesn't really jive with the misleading narrative you were trying to sell earlier..

I am still looking into stats, but in general you are right they are R...but most of them have had way more D's in their backgorund than R's. City wise they are almost all D's and long term D's.

 

[climbhightree]

I don't put an exact moment on when a potential human becomes a human. I don't believe it's at the zygote stage. Nor blastula or gastrula. I do think an argument for before viability outside the womb is reasonable. I don't think movement is a good criteria; heck, sperm flagellate. I don't like heartbeat as a criterion. Why not choose the pancreas or the liver instead of the heart? (Perhaps because we use the absence of heartbeat as an easy way to diagnose death although you don’t die instantaneously if your heart stops beating.) Pain seems to be a fairly reasonable criterion. I think a response to a basic stimulus is indicative of being more than a clump of cells. Consider: can you kill something you can't hurt? No one has a problem with removal of a cyst or many other things made of living cells.

Interesting that you mentioned "mental capacity" since that comes into play late in the game.

I specifically said that due to issues later in life, or autism etc.

Babies can feel pain around 12 weeks according to a new study. Also at 8 weeks the baby exhibits reflex movement during invasive procedures. fifth week after conception, the first synapses begin forming in a fetus’s spinal cord. By the sixth week, these early neural connections permit the first fetal movements. So no abortions after 12 weeks then, for you?

 

[rico]

I am still looking into stats, but in general yuo are right they are R...but most of them have had way more D's in their backgorund than R's. City wise they are almost all D's and long term D's.

Try as you might you can't change the very simply fact that the states that YOU listed have been run by republicans for between 5 and 18 years in a row. You can looks at the stats from 1865 if it fits your fucking narrative a little better, but that would be rather dishonest wouldn't it..

 

[climbhightree]

Try as you might you can't change the very simply fact that the states that YOU listed have been run by republicans for between 5 and 18 years in a row. You can looks at the stats from 1865 if it fits your fucking narrative a little better, but that would be rather dishonest wouldn't it..

I didnt actually choose a random date. I pulled the information from wikipedia, and some of the states had cut off there due to rule changes etc...so it made it easier to add them up. Then I just stuck with that date to try and keep it consistent

 

[CHTjules]

Try as you might you can't change the very simply fact that the states that YOU listed have been run by republicans for between 5 and 18 years in a row. You can looks at the stats from 1865 if it fits your fucking narrative a little better, but that would be rather dishonest wouldn't it..

Now do the cities.

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