Risk to septic by dropping tree

[tomstrees]

A customer wanted me to drop the larger of these hickory trees on to the lawn, which is frozen. I don't see any risk here. Is there anything to convince the customer?

 

[Reach]

If there is a drain field or septic tanks, I’m not dropping anything on it. If the ground is frozen solid 3’ deep I might think about it, but otherwise I won’t do it. Puncture the ground with a long stub and you can puncture the field. Also, the shock of a tree crashing into the ground can crack/break a buried line - they are plastic, and cold. They’re brittle.

 

[chris_girard]

Never drop a tree across a septic, no matter the customer tells you.

 

[VenasNursery]

It could turn out to be a shity situation literally

 

[Reach]

It could turn out to be a shity situation literally

We had one of those the other month, quite literally! Apparently there was an unknown tank in the back yard, separated from the others.

Crane drove over the slightly buried tank and broke the cap, when the crew was picking up the mats, the crane operator lifted a mat, stepped forward, and disappeared into the ground!

He found the broken lid, and ended up near waist deep in the waste… A very smelly drive back to the shop I am sure!

And amazingly, the tank survived, only the lid was broken.

 

[oldoakman]

I suppose if you explained the risk to the customer as mentioned above and had them sign and notarize a hold harmless agreement with explicit language regarding the scope of work, then it MIGHT be ok. No way in hell would i even think of dropping those on that sand mound!

 

[tomstrees]

I just don't physically see how a branchy hickory tree like that would do the damage with a slow drop, but it is of course possible. You have to weigh economic advantage vs. downside; and the hold harmless agreement would be essential. Thanks for the advice on this; the customer asked about dropping toward other directions like on the driveway, not practical IMO.

 

[moss]

I just don't physically see how a branchy hickory tree like that would do the damage with a slow drop, but it is of course possible. You have to weight economic advantage vs. downside; and the hold harmless agreement would be essential.

If you've ever seen a septic system leach field being built, it's surprising how close the PVC pipe is to the surface. I don't think frozen ground is going to make any difference. Not worth chancing it.
-AJ

 

[Tom Dunlap]

explained the risk to the customer as mentioned above and had them sign and notarize a hold harmless agreement with explicit language regarding the scope of work,

And first...get the OK from your liability insurance agent.

I remember doing some lot clearing for new construction a few times and the homeowner was always explicit about where the tanks and drainfield were planned. If anyone even drove a car across that area it compacted the soil and eliminated the drain field location. I flagged it off and made it clear to my crew.

 

[evo]

I just don't physically see how a branchy hickory tree like that would do the damage with a slow drop, but it is of course possible. You have to weight economic advantage vs. downside; and the hold harmless agreement would be essential.

Wtf, dude? You ask a question, and then argue against the answers.
It’s not worth the risk, I’ve seen one limb spear in 3” and damage a drain field, costing a few hundred bucks and a days labor. No one knew it was there, and it was illegally shallow, but our homes asbuilt says our drain field is 5’ deep I found a pipe with a tee post. That might be the case for the drain rock, but the pipes are less than a foot deep and super thin pvc. I won’t even drive the mini across it.

 

[Diesel487]

Its not worth the risk, id rather rebuild the stone wall behind it and drop it in the driveway/street if i had to drop it. Why cant you climb it or use a bucket/lift from the other side of that wall?

 

[chris_girard]

If you've ever seen a septic system leach field being built, it's surprising how close the PVC pipe is to the surface. I don't think frozen ground is going to make any difference. Not worth chancing it.
-AJ

Exactly

 

[Serf Life]

If a leach field is active and operating correctly it will not freeze. Microbes makin heat. If it failed the tank would overflow. You can have a skim of frozen ground, but the soil around the pipes will not be. As AJ said, depth can be wicked shallow. We would occasionally fell modest trees across fields and drive over with tractors in deep winter with previous boss, but why chance it? And Evo has a point about asking questions…

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I suppose if you explained the risk to the customer as mentioned above and had them sign and notarize a hold harmless agreement with explicit language regarding the scope of work, then it MIGHT be ok. No way in hell would i even think of dropping those on that sand mound!

I wouldn’t even go that far, if the customer was adamant that’s what they wanted I’d walk.

I wouldn’t want my name associated with that kind of work regardless if the customer signed off on it.

At the end of the day you are the professional, and even though some homeowners may think they know what they’re talking about, you know what’s right and what’s wrong and have the final say. Sometimes it’s better to walk than get yourself into a shitty mess, and in this case literally.

 

[oldoakman]

I wouldn’t even go that far, if the customer was adamant that’s what they wanted I’d walk.

I wouldn’t want my name associated with that kind of work regardless if the customer signed off on it.

At the end of the day you are the professional, and even though some homeowners may think they know what they’re talking about, you know what’s right and what’s wrong and have the final say. Sometimes it’s better to walk than get yourself into a shitty mess, and in this case literally.

True dat.

Actually this looks to be a Sand Mound Septic system which makes it even more fragile to my way of thinking. Sand mound systems are built on top of soils that don't adequately perk fast enough so they hold effluent longer allowing the subsoils to receive the effluent at a volume they can absorb. If the Hickory trees are dead, the construction of the system may have done enough root damage to kill them. Hickories don't like having their feet stomped on.

 

[GregManning]

Thirty (30) years ago I moved into my current house, which was only 3 years old at the time.
The County Health Dept. in their infinite wisdom (at that time) specified leaving as many trees as possible in the septic field. The thought was that tree transpiration would help liquid evaporation.

I bought the house in late fall, winter, with no leaves on the trees.
When the trees leafed out, 13 very large trees, were dead or dyeing, due to septic trench damage to the roots.

The septic pipes (4" PCV) were only 4" below ground.
I had to have the tree limbs, cut and lowered to prevent pipe damage.

I would NOT drop trees into the field, even with logs across the pipe runs to absorb the impact.

I was interested in rock / mountain climbing before this.
However, watching the climbing & rigging is how I got interested in tree climbing.

Bad news ................. Good News !

 

[ghostice]

Although we're discussing septic fields above, while on the topic of sewage systems anyway, I'm really leary about dropping anything tree like from great height onto old, old, old, clay sewer pipe running from a residence to a street tie-in. A lot of times these are on their last leg anyway and a good solid whack from a two ton tree or an impact from a large limb probably wouldn't do them any good, even if buried down below frost line (up north here some of them start off fairly deep but if you have a sloping yard can end up only three or four feet subsurface). Toilets backing up in the old 'hood after you leave wouldn't be good. And these don't show up with a flag if you ask for line locates from the utility folks usually. So I usually try and ask "Where's the sewer line run"?
Out east in Ontario, I have actually seen brick sewer systems too (no kidding) and I look at these even more askance (some of them are largely maintained in-service by prayer I'm sure).

 

[tomstrees]

Thanks for the advice. This was a log splitting job I agreed to do at $50/hr.. The guy wanted some of those hickories removed; fortunately the wife was concerned about the septic field so the large tree will not get taken out, there are some small ones I may come back for as they are not very big and don't pose the risk of the large one. I don't like potential risk with limited upside. I don't know septic fields as others here do.