Ring and ring with x rigging rings

[dmonn]

I'd like to make a retrievable ring and ring sling using x rigging rings. I've got a large ring and a medium ring which should work OK. I'd like to use 1/2 inch tenex tec. Can this be done with brummel splicing? I know how to do the second eye splice, but can it be done around a rigging ring tight enough to hold the ring securely? If so, any tricks to it? (like whip or stitch the throat?)

 

[Jehinten]

I would suggest a larger diameter, something that fits the width of the rings a little snugger, this will also increase your wll. Personally I use 3/4" for the ABR/Notch #2 rings. To my knowledge, all tenex splices need to be lockstitched.

 

[dmonn]

I would suggest a larger diameter, something that fits the width of the rings a little snugger, this will also increase your wll. Personally I use 3/4" for the ABR/Notch #2 rings. To my knowledge, all tenex splices need to be lockstitched.

Interesting. I thought the Notch #2 x rigging ring was designed for 1/2 inch. I know the buried tail needs to be lockstitched, but was wondering what to do at the ring end of the throat to help keep the rope in the groove of the ring if I can't get the eye tight enough.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Jehinten]

I no longer see the sizing chart under the rings that was on treestuff.com's old website, but if I remember correctly the max host rope on the #2 ring is 7/8"


1/2" will likely work fine, but the larger will create a better wll and allow the use of larger rigging lines since you want the rope to be the weak link and not the sling.

 

[JTree]

I'm not sure how you'd pull off the second brummel once you have a ring in one end. I'm no 12 hollow master, tho, so maybe someone will be able to enlighten both of us.

 

[JTree]

If it were me and I was just winging it, I do locking brummels on one end and just do a standard splice on the other end, whipping and lockstiching the mess out of the whole thing. Followed by heat shrink at the throats and cordura over the whole thing.

I take that back, if I were doing this, I'd be using double braid. I've almost completely gotten away from hollow braid and am just waiting for my last 2 12 hollow sling to show enough wear to get rid of them. I know I am in the minority here, but I hate that stuff. Pick city anytime I'm working on anything but smooth bark.

That and I don't really trust lock stitching in 12 strand. I had a 3/4 whoopie that I had spliced and lock stitched with a single ring that I used for redirects in large wood. A new groundie, being lazy, was tieing it on my climb line to send it up to me and he put the carabiner through the last brummel. When I hauled it up, the bury was almost completely pulled out. I looked at the stitching and all the threads looked fine on the surface, but where broken and/or worn on the inside. I restitched my remaining slings, even though the stitching still looked ok out of principle. I decided that day to start moving away from 12 strand wherever I could. Who knows? Maybe my lockstitching skills just suck, or maybe I should have used dyneema throwline for thread or something. All I know is for me, I like double braid for these applications. I'd make an exception for an ultra sling, but even then, the material cost is getting pretty high in my opinion.

 

[Jehinten]

I've not done a ring and ring in 12 strand but I believe for the locking brummel in the second end, you do your first tuck like normal then for the second tuck you unbraid the tail and split the stands with 6 on each side of the sling, then rebraid and bury.

 

[RyTheTreeGuy]

You can do a locked brummel on both ends, but your second brummel would have to be a re-weave which can be tricky. If you have good braiding skills then you can pull it off. I have done it once with moderate success. You need to tape off where your measurement is then unbraid all the strands. Tape all the ends to ensure the twisting in the strands stays tight. When I did it I made 4, 3 braid plaits. 2 go left, 2 go right then re braid with a 4 strand weave and bury as usual...keep your braiding very tight

 

[Jehinten]

I've not done a ring and ring in 12 strand but I believe for the locking brummel in the second end, you do your first tuck like normal then for the second tuck you unbraid the tail and split the stands with 6 on each side of the sling, then rebraid and bury.

Also just running off of memory here, I believe a straight bury is stronger the locking brummel. The locking brummel just allows a shorter bury. If it we're me I'd go a little longer and do the easier/stronger splice.

 

[dmonn]

Great suggestion. Sometimes the obvious isn't.

Here's a photo of the medium ring. I've read that the numbers refer to the diameter of the hole and the diameter of the groove. I thought the diameter of the groove meant the maximum diameter of the rope that goes around the ring. If this is true, at 14 mm that would mean approximately a half-inch rope. Am I wrong about the markings?

 

[robinia]

Make it out of 16 strand.
No core.
It’s more durable, won’t pick, and you can go fairly short.

 

[Brocky]

A easy method for locked brummels on both ends is to make the first eye larger to slip in the ring later. The second splice is done and the eye can go through the cord for the lock. The ring is put in the eye and whipped, or seized to close the gap. The two sections of the large eye don’t necessarily need to be sewn or seized tight up to the ring, only filling the gap to keep the ring in the eye.

 

[ghostice]

Below is the way I've made ring and rings too - just re-did one this week after the old 3/4" Tenex/ medium rings had got a severe case of the "pickies" (strands getting stuck on broken spruce twigs) - they trashed a sling in one summer on conifers. Made a pocket sling in 1/2" Tenex as well but with just one ring - don't bomb tops onto this size sling myself.
https:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnfvuPATjrM
I like having the two rings for more radius on the ropes if you're dropping stuff onto rings.
There is a fairly recent TreeBuzz discussion somewhere on merits of pocket slings vs single strand and timber hitch/snugging a stem. As a thought on sling service life. I was surprised how hacked up my pocket slings became on stems with dry coarse bark and little broken branch stubs.
Cheers all

 

[Brocky]

I like having the two rings for more radius on the ropes if you're dropping stuff onto rings.

It was hard for me to believe when I first heard, but two, or more rings, side by side, doesn’t increase the radius, it only increases the strength.
Imagine ten rings stacked together, the rope would be straight between the high points of the two outside rings. This also happens with two, but is hard to see due to the short distance. I’m guessing the same is true of rigging rings that have a flat spot in the middle of the hole.

 

[ghostice]

Never thought about this point - just took for granted point made in the original X ring vdeo's I think it was that X Man recommended three rings and Tom Hoffman used I think it was two or three in one of his videos. Why are they selling rigs with two rings? In this case Fiori's mega ring thing would be safest (for the rope anyway)? Must ponder this with some single malt and perhaps some of my mechanical engineer friends. Great point. Is there a citation to this effect somewhere?

Addenda (after discussion):
In considering Brocky's comment above we got into a discussion of friction and cylinders and the capstan equation - e.g. at:
https:// web.archive.org/web/20100821151812/http://www.jrre.org/att_frict.pdf
as cited in
https:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capstan_equation
It seems there have also been TreeBuzz threads previously with respect to porta wraps/ GRCS type devices and capstan equation/ friction.
The X rings are an interesting case - opinion here was two or more in a row would probably not purely (I asked to how many decimal places?) have the physics of a round cylinder or even a cylinder with flat spots - there are spaces between two adjacent rings with no rope contact, almost half of the thickness each of of the rings adjoining. We concluded that simple capstan equation probably wouldn't technically hold in the case of stacked rings but but might only be approximated for the radius of the first and last ring. This is an interesting case. Any further thoughts?

 

[Benjo75]

Just made this one. 5 ft 9inch. 3/4 TenexTec. Large ring and medium ring. 2 brummels and 1.5 fid length buried tail and lockstitched.

 

[eyehearttrees]

FWIW I've found the Samson "eye & eye split tail" writeup/instructional to great success, not just Ice Tail hitches but also 5/8 TEC eye&eyes

 

[eyehearttrees]

Just made this one. 5 ft 9inch. 3/4 TenexTec. Large ring and medium ring. 2 brummels and 1.5 fid length buried tail and lockstitched.

These are so damn useful, I made one that's almost 10' long and it lets me have a "2 anchor" setup from 1 sling in many instances (IE in spreading canopies that single anchor can let me have a pair of XL's set up to 9' apart from each other based on the canopy ), can of course just wrap it around something skinny real quick too, so versatile it's my most-used anchor for sure!!

 

[ajblease1]

Both of my retrievable rigging rings are made with double braid. One is 34” long, 1/2” stable braid, with a big ISC ring and a small Tylaska rigging ring. The second is feet long, made from 5/8” polydyne, and has large and medium x rings.
These are both stupid strong in basket configuration, and the double braid is less susceptible to damage upon retrieval. I’ve tip tied 4000 lb pine logs off the larger rings with no issues. A double braid splice in new rigging line is pretty straight forward. Give it a try.