Removal but I'm still not sure what it was...

J

Jack S

Location
Sarasota
This was my second removal. My first was easy -- a laurel oak, but this one is harder for me. I'm new to this. At first I thought the leaves were opposite simple (and lanceolate?), but now I think they might be even pinnately compound. I'm not honestly sure how to tell the difference between leaflets on a rachis and leaves on a stem. I hope the photos do it some justice. My best guess is some kind of ash, but ash are odd pinnately compound. Still, it would stand to reason at least in the sense that I noticed climbing this tree that the wood is extremely springy. I hated to cut it down but a few branches had broken off in the last hurricane and the owner retaliated by lopping off several large branches using flush cuts. Anyway, he wanted it gone. The tree was in Sarasota Florida, in the central region of the state and my books on trees say ash only really occurs in the norther region. Any help would be appreciated. The owner insists it's a ficus but it's my understanding that ficus trees, around here at least, have alternate leaves and many have areal roots.

Also i included a picture of the insects living in the center of the trunk. Are they termites or beetle larvae, or something else?

Finally, kind of curious how much you guys would have charged for this removal. I figured it at 600 dollars, but I wound up doing it for free. It took me about 8 hours to get it all down to the ground with the help of an inexperienced ground guy. Probably really slow for all you guys but I was being super cautious because the springy wood had me jumping at my own shadow, and I didn't climb as high as I normally would have.

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Any help would be appreciated!
 
It didn't look like any kind of Strangler fig I've ever seen, and I've been living here in Florida for 30 years. Unless it's some kind of version with a completely different leaf shape, size, and structure. Stranglers have alternate simple leaf Arrangements. I can't tell if this was compound or simple but it's definitely opposite and not alternate. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful, but I don't think that's what this is. This tree was not a grand tree and was on an owner-occupied single-family residential lot, so it did not require a removal permit.
 
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Sarasota works the opposite. They don't have a list of protected trees. They have a list of excluded trees, so unless the tree is on the excluded list....it's protected.
 
Yeah I was a little uneducated on that part of the business. Appreciate the heads up.
I called the North County Environmental Specialist and he told me that it would not have required a permit. See my edit above.
 
The county has different rules than the city of Sarasota. Checking the address in the county property appraiser's website is a good way to confirm exactly where a clients property lies. Then you can search www.municode.com for that particular municipalities tree codes to make sure you're coloring inside the lines.
 
Thanks for the heads up! No one's really said so far but what would you guys have quoted this job for? If it needed a permit would you all have eaten the 215 dollar permit application fee or aged it to the invoice?
 
cerviarborist said:
Sarasota works the opposite. They don't have a list of protected trees. They have a list of excluded trees, so unless the tree is on the excluded list....it's protected.
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That is a fairly shocking (to me) fact. Hard to believe a local government can seize control of private property in such a manner.
 
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but you did under bid it, probably by $200 (drop and chop)-$1400 (all rigged over skylights)-$2200 (crane), possibly by more in that market.
 
TimBr said:
That is a fairly shocking (to me) fact. Hard to believe a local government can seize control of private property in such a manner.
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Lots of places are moving to that type of permitting. Washington DC, Atlanta and many others. In some ways it is good, and others bad. This type regulation along with proper licensing of tree services would go a long way in bringing up the industry standard. When your barber needs a gate license to cut your hair, it seems a little rediculous that many states don't require any proof of competency at all for tree services.
 
The permit is a long way from a sure thing, especially around Sarasota. Anybody who's applying for and paying the fee for the permit without either collecting a fee for preparation and filing time and fees up front, or at least a contractual agreement for reimbursement of same in the event the permit is denied....is asking for heartbreak.

Markets have a lot of variability in pricing. To bandy about online agreements as to the correct amount to charge for a job, is flirting with a price fixing charge.
 
TimBr said:
That is a fairly shocking (to me) fact. Hard to believe a local government can seize control of private property in such a manner.
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I can't help with the id but I'll jump in on the highjacking of this post! So, what makes the tree private property? Where the trunk exits the ground, the canopy or roots extend to, who benefits from the ecological services provided?

A disservice has been done by using the trunk as the indicator of ownership. If that is bisected by a property line then it's owned as Tenants in common, i.e., both parties own the whole tree jointly. Take that same tree and move it so the trunk is inside the property line and its no longer owned by both and the roots and crown are considered to be encroaching on the other property with the law deeming the encroachment is the responsibility of those being encroached upon. Move it further and you've now got a situation that becomes even more messy. While the roots, trunk and canopy reside completely within the boundaries of the one property the ecological services provided benefit neighboring properties. Think in terms of stormwater management as an example.

Municipalities are becoming enlightened to the complexity of the urban canopy and its relationship to the community at large. This is leading to the greater good being served over the private property rights. Some do this well, others... not so much.

As for the cost of a permit:
  1. if you get involved then its billable service based on your expertise in managing the process.
  2. It's a service that you can charge for profitably.
 
I agree. Sarasota County doesn't restrict development sufficiently, so the very least that can be done to avoid turning the place into a lifeless, clear-cut wasteland is restrict the wholesale removal of trees and preserve ecological necessities on private property.
You can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a "hurricane-proofed" palm or a beautiful live oak that's been coat-racked.
I don't want to make my money by contributing to that. Honestly if the owner hadn't already doomed this tree I wouldn't have taken it out. I would have cut it back slowly from the roof and taken some weight off some limbs.
 
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colb said:
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but you did under bid it, probably by $200 (drop and chop)-$1400 (all rigged over skylights)-$2200 (crane), possibly by more in that market.
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Two of the four main branches we over the roof and it was near a small fence so most of it had to be rigged.
I swear the hardest thing about this so far has been trying to figure out how much to charge people for what. The main reason for that is that I think something is going to take a half a day and ends up taking a day and a half. So I'm doing work for cheap and getting tied up for a while longer.
Well, the hardest thing next to ID'ing this damn tree.
 
Hey, @Jack S! Why did you never collect a payment for all of this work? You completed the task that you were asked to, did you not? What part of the story am I not understanding? Thanks in advance for any answer you choose to give.

Tim
 
Hey, Tim, happy to share. I'm just starting out, and trying to build some goodwill and get some good word of mouth. I'm not hurting for money at the moment because I'm still teaching full time (hoping to transition to business owner or contract climber before August so I don't have to go back to teaching). When I thought it would be a quick, half-day job I offered to do it for free. I didn't feel right asking for money after the job proved to be a bigger one than I'd thought, so I didn't.
Lesson learned.
It was a great learning experience, anyway -- I got more practice with notch cuts, snap cuts, and new (to me) rigging techniques. Also, any time I can get in a tree just to climb is time well spent.
Also I'm a freediver/spearfisher, and the owner has a boat, so he offered to take me and some friends offshore for a day after all was said and done. Pretty fair trade.
 
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