Professional liability insurance

ATH

ATH

Been here much more than a while
Location
Findlay, Ohio
Who has professional liability insurance (or errors and omissions)? How much extra do you pay for that?

The only reason I see a real need is when I am doing tree risk assessments. Are there other circumstances where you see the need?

I also do some forestry consulting work and another consulting forester said I really need it for that. After discussing with my agent, we aren't so convinced. I won't mark timber near property lines that aren't well defined (and confirmed in the contract with the landowner). The other consultant thought I need it for doing timber appraisals - but an appraisal is never a guarantee of value so I don't see there is a lot of exposure there. (same would apply for doing individual tree appraisals as an arborist).

Just looking for thoughts and experiences. Agent suggested I have conversations with other professionals to determine if there is actual need (I think there is for risk assessments...but maybe you know otherwise). Is there any case law that you are familiar with where an arborist was held liable...or where they were sued and found not liable?
 
ATH said:
Who has professional liability insurance (or errors and omissions)? How much extra do you pay for that?

The only reason I see a real need is when I am doing tree risk assessments. Are there other circumstances where you see the need?

I also do some forestry consulting work and another consulting forester said I really need it for that. After discussing with my agent, we aren't so convinced. I won't mark timber near property lines that aren't well defined (and confirmed in the contract with the landowner). The other consultant thought I need it for doing timber appraisals - but an appraisal is never a guarantee of value so I don't see there is a lot of exposure there. (same would apply for doing individual tree appraisals as an arborist).

Just looking for thoughts and experiences. Agent suggested I have conversations with other professionals to determine if there is actual need (I think there is for risk assessments...but maybe you know otherwise). Is there any case law that you are familiar with where an arborist was held liable...or where they were sued and found not liable?
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Professional liability covers your ass in court fees, in cases of negligence, etc, relating to professional consulting. I started up my own consulting company this year and decided to go for it- $1mil coverage for about $400 / year CAD, with someone who understands the tree business

My understanding is that the general liability we all carry serves to protect you against lawsuits for damages to property, people, etc
 
In a "back-of-a-cocktail-napkin" perspective, General Liability insurance is there to provide compensation for damages caused by things you DO (ie-dropped a spar through a pool cage). Errors and Omissions insurance provides compensation for things you DIDN'T DO. (ie-notice soil movement around the root plate when wind was moving the canopy, when you assessed risk for a tree that subsequently fell through the pool cage). (Or failing to obtain legitimate, defendable costs of replacement trees in an appraisal case, which resulted in your client losing a case.)
 
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cerviarborist said:
If your agent thinks you don't need it, you need a new agent.
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For forestry consulting... We agree that for tree risk assessment/ arboriculture consulting it is needed.

It wasn't so much of a question of the difference between E&O vs. Liability as much as:
A) Who has it
B) How much (sounds like +/-$500)
C) Do you know of cases where it was actually needed?

For those who do have it - who underwrites it? My agent said it would be closer to $1000-$1500. General liability is through Westfield. They don't have an option to add Professional Liability on so he was looking at a couple of standalone policies. I did ask whether we switched to a different provider (which may be a little more money for the base policy) if we could add Professional Liability to that. There are not a lot of insurers in Ohio who will underwrite pesticide applications...

Thanks again for the discussion!
 
Side note on the pesticide applications: Ohio Dept. of Ag changed what insurance is required for those - essentially requiring an E&O provision in those policies now. There were 2 incidents in the State a couple of years apart where the insurer denied the claim because the policies had exclusions for "your work".

One case a guy was hired to spray for spiders around the house. He sprayed with 2, 4-D. A LOT of 2, 4-D. Killed all the trees throughout the yard.

The second case, a firm was hired to do broadleaf weed control on 50 acres of turf at a all of the properties owned by a small university. They used glyphosate. It killed the broadleaf weeds too... Insurance denied claim to replace turf.

Because of those 2 cases which would have cost the insurance companies under $2 million if they paid out (only 2 major cases in over 10 years), all 3,500 businesses with licenses are now required to pay more for insurance. I've seen a $500 increase. Do the math. Big win for one industry...

So I will have Professional Liability for pesticide applications (I was a little surprised to learn I did not...).
 
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ATH said:
For forestry consulting... We agree that for tree risk assessment/ arboriculture consulting it is needed.

It wasn't so much of a question of the difference between E&O vs. Liability as much as:
A) Who has it
B) How much (sounds like +/-$500)
C) Do you know of cases where it was actually needed?

For those who do have it - who underwrites it? My agent said it would be closer to $1000-$1500. General liability is through Westfield. They don't have an option to add Professional Liability on so he was looking at a couple of standalone policies. I did ask whether we switched to a different provider (which may be a little more money for the base policy) if we could add Professional Liability to that. There are not a lot of insurers in Ohio who will underwrite pesticide applications...

Thanks again for the discussion!
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I looked at it.

Never heard of a case where it was needed (small area and community. I do see where it could be needed for sure)

Once you have it you’re glued to the policy, change policies or drop it for a year sabbatical and it won’t cover anything prior.

I was quoted a little north of $900
 
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I should add that I don’t really do reports, much.
I don’t spray or apply chemicals.
For my self I’d feel best hiring a lawyer to write up a soild contract, and hedge my bets that I never need to defend it. But if I did a significant amount of reports, assessments, etc that would change quickly
 
CanadianStan said:
Professional liability covers your ass in court fees, in cases of negligence, etc, relating to professional consulting. I started up my own consulting company this year and decided to go for it- $1mil coverage for about $400 / year CAD, with someone who understands the tree business

My understanding is that the general liability we all carry serves to protect you against lawsuits for damages to property, people, etc
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Who is CAD? I searched quickly online and didn't see anything.

Got a quote for $3K today!!! Reading through it was clearly designed for construction.

My agent is willing to help look, but this was a new question for him. He has been very good with all other aspects of helping with business stuff - just never had need for arborist O&E before.

Thanks!
 
ATH said:
Who is CAD? I searched quickly online and didn't see anything.

Got a quote for $3K today!!! Reading through it was clearly designed for construction.

My agent is willing to help look, but this was a new question for him. He has been very good with all other aspects of helping with business stuff - just never had need for arborist O&E before.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

$400 Canadian dollars :D
 
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We have it as well. Its included as part of our gl policy. Scottsdale is the underwriter. Surprisingly they didn't charge any more on our gl to include it. I figure it doesn't hurt to have it.
 
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