Power Lines on One Side / Safe to Climb Away From Wires?

[Bhardman]

In my area our trimming around a service drop is not part of our maintenance. Services aren’t part of our right of way. For me to get the forestry dept to cut around a service the tree actually has to be touching the wire or impeding work to restore power. It’s otherwise up to the customer to have their tree trimmed. I try to do my best to communicate that to the customers which sometimes doesn’t go well. right or wrong that’s our company policy.
Once again every area is different. That’s just how we do it.

 

[Marshy]

In my area our trimming around a service drop is not part of our maintenance. Services aren’t part of our right of way. For me to get the forestry dept to cut around a service the tree actually has to be touching the wire or impeding work to restore power. It’s otherwise up to the customer to have their tree trimmed. I try to do my best to communicate that to the customers which sometimes doesn’t go well. right or wrong that’s our company policy.
Once again every area is different. That’s just how we do it.

That is true for my area as well.

 

[Reach]

In my area our trimming around a service drop is not part of our maintenance. Services aren’t part of our right of way. For me to get the forestry dept to cut around a service the tree actually has to be touching the wire or impeding work to restore power. It’s otherwise up to the customer to have their tree trimmed. I try to do my best to communicate that to the customers which sometimes doesn’t go well. right or wrong that’s our company policy.
Once again every area is different. That’s just how we do it.

Same rules around here as well.

 

[Bhardman]

Ok forgive me for my ignorance. Are not all certified arborists qualified to work around power lines? In my day the two people I recommend the most are certified electricians and certified arborists.

 

[Marshy]

Ok forgive me for my ignorance. Are not all certified arborists qualified to work around power lines? In my day the two people I recommend the most are certified electricians and certified arborists.

Mutually exclusive in my opinion. You can be one and not the other. I guess it depends on your market, business goals, professional aspiration.

 

[Bhardman]

Oh ok. See that, learned something new again. Looks like I need to adjust what I tell the customers.

 

[southsoundtree]

I might be mistaken, but is/isn't @Mark Chisholm both? I thought Aspen (???) has a line-clearance job posted in the past.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Both certs are independent of the other

 

[Marshy]

Thanks again for the advice @Jehinten. I called the utility today and they said the home owner needs to call and they will open a ticket to top the tree to a safe distance. All material they cut stays on the property but they will bring it down to below the line. This is a win for the customer an for me.

 

[southsoundtree]

Around here, the for-profit power company contracts Asplundh for line clearance.

Phone and internet lines aren't cleared.

Anyone else see this?

 

[Marshy]

Around here, the for-profit power company contracts Asplundh for line clearance.

Phone and internet lines aren't cleared.

Anyone else see this?

Same here in NY. If there's com lines with no power, those things could have a 5" diameter branch laying on them for 6 years and never be cleared. God forbid I hit it with a backhoe though.

 

[Jehinten]

Around here, the for-profit power company contracts Asplundh for line clearance.

Phone and internet lines aren't cleared.

Anyone else see this?

Same here in southern Indiana with only the pole to pole being cleared. Service drops are the homeowners responsibility to have trimmed.

 

[Jehinten]

Thanks again for the advice @Jehinten. I called the utility today and they said the home owner needs to call and they will open a ticket to top the tree to a safe distance. All material they cut stays on the property but they will bring it down to below the line. This is a win for the customer an for me.

Great. I'm glad it worked out for you. Be prepared though, cleaning up after line clearance is a bit different than how you clean up after yourself. When we work we try to keep brush and logs as big as possible, this means less trips with the mini. Line clearance likes to use as many tanks of fuel as possible while they're up there. I get why they do it, making salad as its referred to, but it's not the most convenient when it comes to cleanup.

 

[Marshy]

Great. I'm glad it worked out for you. Be prepared though, cleaning up after line clearance is a bit different than how you clean up after yourself. When we work we try to keep brush and logs as big as possible, this means less trips with the mini. Line clearance likes to use as many tanks of fuel as possible while they're up there. I get why they do it, making salad as its referred to, but it's not the most convenient when it comes to cleanup.

LOL! Thanks for the laugh. Luckily this is out near the curb in the front yard and not out back. There are 2 service drops coming from the pole next to the tree. Between the drops and the regular lines, I'm sure the guy is going to be shooting salad all over.

 

[Tony]

@Bhardman
For guys in the utility arboriculture world, they are working up and around power lines every single day of the week. MAD is the basic standard that keeps them safe on a day to day basis. I would liken utility arborists MAD to the stages of becoming a lineman. You aren’t gloving your first year or two. MAD is a term that is cross pollinated between varying professions and can apply to a whole variety of dangers including but not limited to machinery, chainsaws and yes power lines.

I would not say that the ability to read “what’s hot and what’s not” is more important than determining nominal voltage, because to the line guys it is usually all hot. In my personal experience, line kills are rare.

Arborists working for utilities are expected to get right up to their MAD on a regular basis. That being said, there are factors and documented training in place that allow them to do so. They will usually have a designated spotter who’s sole purpose during the job is to spot and communicate about maintaining MAD to the person near the lines. The qualified workers should either be reading a circuit map or be in direct communication with a utility rep about voltage, and then reference the chart that was previously mentioned by @Tony and @Tom Dunlap. That chart is also on their trucks for easy reference. These extra layers of redundancy allow them to work safely near the lines. A lot of times the hardcore utility dudes have been doing work in the same area for 20+ years and know their grid intimately, almost as well as the lineman. Sorry if this is all stuff you know, you said you work for a utility as a troubleman so you know about 10x more about line work than I do. I’ve only done utility arb work for about 3 years on and off.

I did want to broach a subject that @Tony briefly mentioned in hopes that he could shed more light. I have never quite understood the incidental line clearance arborist designation. Would the utility recognize that if you knocked out power or got killed? My understanding is if you are within their MAD or touch their infrastructure, you are technically trespassing. In my own experience, the incidental line clearance designation has only been used as a verbal tool by residential tree bosses to pressure unqualified arborists into breaking their 10-foot blanket MAD. They get their employees some EHAT training and now they are qualified to break the 10 foot MAD? Seems fishy. Thanks for the great convo I get a lot of value from the buzz.
-Colin

First some clarification and ground rules. This is not EHAT training. This is a discussion of what current standards say as it pertains to the major regulations.

Second, I can only address the regulations themselves with anything near accuracy. Like all standards, they are a minimum to meet compliance. Your employer, state, or mom for that matter may make anything I say here more stringent, but they cannot make it less so.

Lastly, while I will be talking regulation and compliance the goal is not obedience but informed decision-making with best practices and guidelines that have been proven to work.

In a post above I outlined the acronyms that abound. Suffice to say that QLCA and LCTT are the same thing, different standards. To meet that designation you have to be employed by the utility or one of their subcontractors. It is merely a matter of who is signing the checks.

QILCA was a designation developed in the Z133 revision before last. Before the revision, all arborists NOT employed by the utility or the utility subcontractor had an approach distance equal to that of an unqualified worker. 10’ on anything 50 kV and less.

To be clear. This means if any tree part is within the MAD an unqualified worker cannot by standard work on any part of that tree. (I am not going down the tool argument. Let's keep it basic for now)

The ANSI committee addressed this major discrepancy as the issue was not a matter of training or ability, but merely who was signing the checks. So a new designation was born. QILCA. This is a worker with the same qualifications as a QLCA or LCTT (see Annex B Z133) but does not work for the utility.

The new designation came with a new MAD chart. (again see ANSI Z133) so now a residential commercial arborist can be qualified, by his or her employer after they meet the standards and use the QLICA MAD chart.

What is the practical effect of this? For many years and to this day I am capable of, trained in, and proficient in all categories under Annex B. Before QILCA My approach distance was very restrictive. Now I can work safely and in compliance at a distance just a few inches more than a QLCA or LCTT. Many of which I am more qualified than in training and experience.

Having said all that you have to make your own decisions, become competent and proficient in many areas in all aspects of our work, but especially around electricity.

I hope this has clarified your questions.

Tony

 

[Mark Chisholm]

I might be mistaken, but is/isn't @Mark Chisholm both? I thought Aspen (???) has a line-clearance job posted in the past.

I am, and we do

 

[Mark Chisholm]

First some clarification and ground rules. This is not EHAT training. This is a discussion of what current standards say as it pertains to the major regulations.

Second, I can only address the regulations themselves with anything near accuracy. Like all standards, they are a minimum to meet compliance. Your employer, state, or mom for that matter may make anything I say here more stringent, but they cannot make it less so.

Lastly, while I will be talking regulation and compliance the goal is not obedience but informed decision-making with best practices and guidelines that have been proven to work.

In a post above I outlined the acronyms that abound. Suffice to say that QLCA and LCTT are the same thing, different standards. To meet that designation you have to be employed by the utility or one of their subcontractors. It is merely a matter of who is signing the checks.

QILCA was a designation developed in the Z133 revision before last. Before the revision, all arborists NOT employed by the utility or the utility subcontractor had an approach distance equal to that of an unqualified worker. 10’ on anything 50 kV and less.

To be clear. This means if any tree part is within the MAD an unqualified worker cannot by standard work on any part of that tree. (I am not going down the tool argument. Let's keep it basic for now)

The ANSI committee addressed this major discrepancy as the issue was not a matter of training or ability, but merely who was signing the checks. So a new designation was born. QILCA. This is a worker with the same qualifications as a QLCA or LCTT (see Annex B Z133) but does not work for the utility.

The new designation came with a new MAD chart. (again see ANSI Z133) so now a residential commercial arborist can be qualified, by his or her employer after they meet the standards and use the QLICA MAD chart.

What is the practical effect of this? For many years and to this day I am capable of, trained in, and proficient in all categories under Annex B. Before QILCA My approach distance was very restrictive. Now I can work safely and in compliance at a distance just a few inches more than a QLCA or LCTT. Many of which I am more qualified than in training and experience.

Having said all that you have to make your own decisions, become competent and proficient in many areas in all aspects of our work, but especially around electricity.

I hope this has clarified your questions.

Tony

Great post Tony!

 

[Reach]

Around here, the for-profit power company contracts Asplundh for line clearance.

Phone and internet lines aren't cleared.

Anyone else see this?

Yes, exactly the same around here.

 

[Reach]

First some clarification and ground rules. This is not EHAT training. This is a discussion of what current standards say as it pertains to the major regulations.

Second, I can only address the regulations themselves with anything near accuracy. Like all standards, they are a minimum to meet compliance. Your employer, state, or mom for that matter may make anything I say here more stringent, but they cannot make it less so.

Lastly, while I will be talking regulation and compliance the goal is not obedience but informed decision-making with best practices and guidelines that have been proven to work.

In a post above I outlined the acronyms that abound. Suffice to say that QLCA and LCTT are the same thing, different standards. To meet that designation you have to be employed by the utility or one of their subcontractors. It is merely a matter of who is signing the checks.

QILCA was a designation developed in the Z133 revision before last. Before the revision, all arborists NOT employed by the utility or the utility subcontractor had an approach distance equal to that of an unqualified worker. 10’ on anything 50 kV and less.

To be clear. This means if any tree part is within the MAD an unqualified worker cannot by standard work on any part of that tree. (I am not going down the tool argument. Let's keep it basic for now)

The ANSI committee addressed this major discrepancy as the issue was not a matter of training or ability, but merely who was signing the checks. So a new designation was born. QILCA. This is a worker with the same qualifications as a QLCA or LCTT (see Annex B Z133) but does not work for the utility.

The new designation came with a new MAD chart. (again see ANSI Z133) so now a residential commercial arborist can be qualified, by his or her employer after they meet the standards and use the QLICA MAD chart.

What is the practical effect of this? For many years and to this day I am capable of, trained in, and proficient in all categories under Annex B. Before QILCA My approach distance was very restrictive. Now I can work safely and in compliance at a distance just a few inches more than a QLCA or LCTT. Many of which I am more qualified than in training and experience.

Having said all that you have to make your own decisions, become competent and proficient in many areas in all aspects of our work, but especially around electricity.

I hope this has clarified your questions.

Tony

Tony, that does explain a lot. Thank you very much for all the work you put into that post!

 

[Bhardman]

First some clarification and ground rules. This is not EHAT training. This is a discussion of what current standards say as it pertains to the major regulations.

Second, I can only address the regulations themselves with anything near accuracy. Like all standards, they are a minimum to meet compliance. Your employer, state, or mom for that matter may make anything I say here more stringent, but they cannot make it less so.

Lastly, while I will be talking regulation and compliance the goal is not obedience but informed decision-making with best practices and guidelines that have been proven to work.

In a post above I outlined the acronyms that abound. Suffice to say that QLCA and LCTT are the same thing, different standards. To meet that designation you have to be employed by the utility or one of their subcontractors. It is merely a matter of who is signing the checks.

QILCA was a designation developed in the Z133 revision before last. Before the revision, all arborists NOT employed by the utility or the utility subcontractor had an approach distance equal to that of an unqualified worker. 10’ on anything 50 kV and less.

To be clear. This means if any tree part is within the MAD an unqualified worker cannot by standard work on any part of that tree. (I am not going down the tool argument. Let's keep it basic for now)

The ANSI committee addressed this major discrepancy as the issue was not a matter of training or ability, but merely who was signing the checks. So a new designation was born. QILCA. This is a worker with the same qualifications as a QLCA or LCTT (see Annex B Z133) but does not work for the utility.

The new designation came with a new MAD chart. (again see ANSI Z133) so now a residential commercial arborist can be qualified, by his or her employer after they meet the standards and use the QLICA MAD chart.

What is the practical effect of this? For many years and to this day I am capable of, trained in, and proficient in all categories under Annex B. Before QILCA My approach distance was very restrictive. Now I can work safely and in compliance at a distance just a few inches more than a QLCA or LCTT. Many of which I am more qualified than in training and experience.

Having said all that you have to make your own decisions, become competent and proficient in many areas in all aspects of our work, but especially around electricity.

I hope this has clarified your questions.

Tony

Man that makes this whole discussion so much clearer. Thanks for taking the time Tony