tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
Possible zigzag accident
- Thread starter didjon
- Start date
Nice workmanship Tuttle!
jomoco
jomoco
tuttle
New member
- Location
- Somewhere in the 21st century
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
[ QUOTE ]
I make all the eye2eye's, and know a few tricks, I dont use a zigzag, but have tried it - and don't rate it.
If you look at my picture you'll see the double prusik idea, which is very free running as it splits the 2 hitches.
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All your pictures look like brandy new stuff;. You ever go up in a tree?
I make all the eye2eye's, and know a few tricks, I dont use a zigzag, but have tried it - and don't rate it.
If you look at my picture you'll see the double prusik idea, which is very free running as it splits the 2 hitches.
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All your pictures look like brandy new stuff;. You ever go up in a tree?
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Maybe he takes pictures of things when they are new?
- Location
- Tonimbuk, Victoria, Australia
I believe he splices and offers gear up for sale. I think I have this stuff on evil bay. BTW, nice work tuttle.
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
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I believe he splices and offers gear up for sale. I think I have this stuff on evil bay. BTW, nice work tuttle.
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ahah...why he doesn't have or like zz and posts his stuff on zz thread.
I believe he splices and offers gear up for sale. I think I have this stuff on evil bay. BTW, nice work tuttle.
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ahah...why he doesn't have or like zz and posts his stuff on zz thread.
For all you know Tuttle may very well be capable of climbing circles around both of us TV!
jomoco
jomoco
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Tuttle seems like a nice, knowledgeable guy, so what if he sells a product, dont all of us in one way or another?
He isnt pushing tuttle-splice on you is he?
The posts were relevant and he was showing what he uses instead of the ZZ.
He isnt pushing tuttle-splice on you is he?
The posts were relevant and he was showing what he uses instead of the ZZ.
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
[ QUOTE ]
Tuttle seems like a nice, knowledgeable guy, so what if he sells a product, dont all of us in one way or another?
He isnt pushing tuttle-splice on you is he?
The posts were relevant and he was showing what he uses instead of the ZZ.
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I have been around forums for a bit, maybe 12 to 15 k posts and know when I am being played so thought I'd out him. You a district salesman Boner? Got a product price list? I prefer to buy from Treestuff myself. They don't need to sneak in to sell stuff.
Tuttle seems like a nice, knowledgeable guy, so what if he sells a product, dont all of us in one way or another?
He isnt pushing tuttle-splice on you is he?
The posts were relevant and he was showing what he uses instead of the ZZ.
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I have been around forums for a bit, maybe 12 to 15 k posts and know when I am being played so thought I'd out him. You a district salesman Boner? Got a product price list? I prefer to buy from Treestuff myself. They don't need to sneak in to sell stuff.
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
What are you talking about?
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
what are YOU talking bout?
Ok, let's us move on it peace. lol First, I'm pretty much a hitch guy myself and my stuff looks new too, mostly cause I never even go outside.
Anybody know what this climber weighed? Or how far he fell before shock loading the zz. Or is the metal in the zz that soft to get bent and break like that.
I think they put too much into the zz to make it pretty then to make it safe.
Anybody know what this climber weighed? Or how far he fell before shock loading the zz. Or is the metal in the zz that soft to get bent and break like that.
I think they put too much into the zz to make it pretty then to make it safe.
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, let's us move on it peace. lol First, I'm pretty much a hitch guy myself and my stuff looks new too, mostly cause I never even go outside.
Anybody know what this climber weighed? Or how far he fell before shock loading the zz. Or is the metal in the zz that soft to get bent and break like that.
I think they put too much into the zz to make it pretty then to make it safe.
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It's all about how the carabiner cantilevered in the ZZ eye as shown in the 3rd diagram in the latest Petzl notice (I posted a screen shot above). The climber did not fall to break the ZZ eye, he was doing multiple hard stops on descent in an indoor industrial climbing situation. He must have been slacking his system pretty good with his feet on some structure to get the carabiner in that position. It's all pretty straightforward at this point, it took 4kn of load to break the ZZ eye with the carabiner positioned as shown in the diagram. I imagine they'll need to figure out a design improvement that doesn't allow the carabiner to lock in the negative cantilevered position.
-AJ
Ok, let's us move on it peace. lol First, I'm pretty much a hitch guy myself and my stuff looks new too, mostly cause I never even go outside.
Anybody know what this climber weighed? Or how far he fell before shock loading the zz. Or is the metal in the zz that soft to get bent and break like that.
I think they put too much into the zz to make it pretty then to make it safe.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's all about how the carabiner cantilevered in the ZZ eye as shown in the 3rd diagram in the latest Petzl notice (I posted a screen shot above). The climber did not fall to break the ZZ eye, he was doing multiple hard stops on descent in an indoor industrial climbing situation. He must have been slacking his system pretty good with his feet on some structure to get the carabiner in that position. It's all pretty straightforward at this point, it took 4kn of load to break the ZZ eye with the carabiner positioned as shown in the diagram. I imagine they'll need to figure out a design improvement that doesn't allow the carabiner to lock in the negative cantilevered position.
-AJ
I don't understand the 15 kn rating for the ZigZag. Same as what is mentioned on p.50 of the new Sherrill Catalog re. attachment points on some saddles like the Treemotion and Sequoia. 15 kn X 225 lb/kn (approx) only translates to around 3375 lb. Seems well shy of the minimum 5000lb that I thought was what everything was supposed to exceed.
If the bridge on a TreeMotion / Sequoia / Butterfly only gets rated pass a 15kn minimum, then it makes sense that the attachment holes on the ZigZag are ok with that lower number as well. Except it doesn't make sense to me.
If the bridge on a TreeMotion / Sequoia / Butterfly only gets rated pass a 15kn minimum, then it makes sense that the attachment holes on the ZigZag are ok with that lower number as well. Except it doesn't make sense to me.
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Ok, let's us move on it peace. lol First, I'm pretty much a hitch guy myself and my stuff looks new too, mostly cause I never even go outside.
Anybody know what this climber weighed? Or how far he fell before shock loading the zz. Or is the metal in the zz that soft to get bent and break like that.
I think they put too much into the zz to make it pretty then to make it safe.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's all about how the carabiner cantilevered in the ZZ eye as shown in the 3rd diagram in the latest Petzl notice (I posted a screen shot above). The climber did not fall to break the ZZ eye, he was doing multiple hard stops on descent in an indoor industrial climbing situation. He must have been slacking his system pretty good with his feet on some structure to get the carabiner in that position. It's all pretty straightforward at this point, it took 4kn of load to break the ZZ eye with the carabiner positioned as shown in the diagram. I imagine they'll need to figure out a design improvement that doesn't allow the carabiner to lock in the negative cantilevered position.
-AJ
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How about making the zz with some stronger metal so it doesn't bend or break like that.
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, let's us move on it peace. lol First, I'm pretty much a hitch guy myself and my stuff looks new too, mostly cause I never even go outside.
Anybody know what this climber weighed? Or how far he fell before shock loading the zz. Or is the metal in the zz that soft to get bent and break like that.
I think they put too much into the zz to make it pretty then to make it safe.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's all about how the carabiner cantilevered in the ZZ eye as shown in the 3rd diagram in the latest Petzl notice (I posted a screen shot above). The climber did not fall to break the ZZ eye, he was doing multiple hard stops on descent in an indoor industrial climbing situation. He must have been slacking his system pretty good with his feet on some structure to get the carabiner in that position. It's all pretty straightforward at this point, it took 4kn of load to break the ZZ eye with the carabiner positioned as shown in the diagram. I imagine they'll need to figure out a design improvement that doesn't allow the carabiner to lock in the negative cantilevered position.
-AJ
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How about making the zz with some stronger metal so it doesn't bend or break like that.
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Dave, a quick read of the Z133 shows that the 5000lb requirement only applies to ropes, biners, snaps and screwlinks. There is a hole that mechanical hitches/friction devices, and saddles fall right into. I can share a digital copy with you if you need it.
Pretty disappointing though, like you, I cant imagine making climbing hardware with break ratings below 23kn. The fact that the ZZ broke at as little as 2kn is shocking, two grown men can easily apply 450lbs of force to a rope.
It would make a great youtube video of two guys pulling on it and it snapping. If anyone has one that they dont want I will make it happen!
Pretty disappointing though, like you, I cant imagine making climbing hardware with break ratings below 23kn. The fact that the ZZ broke at as little as 2kn is shocking, two grown men can easily apply 450lbs of force to a rope.
It would make a great youtube video of two guys pulling on it and it snapping. If anyone has one that they dont want I will make it happen!
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
[ QUOTE ]
Dave, a quick read of the Z133 shows that the 5000lb requirement only applies to ropes, biners, snaps and screwlinks. There is a hole that mechanical hitches/friction devices, and saddles fall right into. I can share a digital copy with you if you need it.
Pretty disappointing though, like you, I cant imagine making climbing hardware with break ratings below 23kn. The fact that the ZZ broke at as little as 2kn is shocking, two grown men can easily apply 450lbs of force to a rope.
It would make a great youtube video of two guys pulling on it and it snapping. If anyone has one that they dont want I will make it happen!
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I would be willing to make a wager that you and another stiff could not pull apart the ring on a zz.
Dave, a quick read of the Z133 shows that the 5000lb requirement only applies to ropes, biners, snaps and screwlinks. There is a hole that mechanical hitches/friction devices, and saddles fall right into. I can share a digital copy with you if you need it.
Pretty disappointing though, like you, I cant imagine making climbing hardware with break ratings below 23kn. The fact that the ZZ broke at as little as 2kn is shocking, two grown men can easily apply 450lbs of force to a rope.
It would make a great youtube video of two guys pulling on it and it snapping. If anyone has one that they dont want I will make it happen!
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I would be willing to make a wager that you and another stiff could not pull apart the ring on a zz.
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
I said 2 grown men, not me and another guy. Pulling hard and lifting heavy is not my strongest suit, I am just a little guy.
Considering that Petzl published the fact that it is breaking at 2kn in certain configs I am not sure what you dont believe. I believe they wouldnt shame themselves by saying 2kn if that was a false number. If the lowest breaking strength was 3kn they probly would have said 3-10kn, not 2-10kn.
Do you doubt that it breaks at 2kn?
That 2kn = 450 lbs?
That two men can exert 450lbs of force by pulling?
Considering that Petzl published the fact that it is breaking at 2kn in certain configs I am not sure what you dont believe. I believe they wouldnt shame themselves by saying 2kn if that was a false number. If the lowest breaking strength was 3kn they probly would have said 3-10kn, not 2-10kn.
Do you doubt that it breaks at 2kn?
That 2kn = 450 lbs?
That two men can exert 450lbs of force by pulling?
