Pocket Sling Question

G

ghostice

Been here a while
Location
A Strange Little Country to the North
Sorry if this question is from the Department of Redundancy Department/ stuff already covered somewhere.

I’ve spent the last little while in the Cave of Wonders, on and off, splicing up some light rigging gear and a question came to mind while brummeling up some Ultra-Sling type (pocket) slings.

ShortSlingThings.webp

When choking climbing lines on a spar during removals, many folks have made the point in their videos and articles of ensuring you are choking the bight against the direction you’ll be working in order to snub the trunk more efficiently - for example see @ 50 sec on Laurence Schultz’s video SRT Spar Work Setups (screen grab).

SchultzEffectChokingTheBight.webp

However, when I look for example at a recent gear failure video in the TreeBuzz thread below:
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/whats-the-first-mistake-made-in-this-rigging-failure.37488/
and the Youtube video at: 0:44 second run time (easier to see in the slow motion view)

In this case the sling holding the block doesn’t appear to be snubbed/ secured sufficiently and in fact is pulled a long way down the trunk. In other situations, if there is a long tail on the sling holding the block/ ring it would be easy to put in some extra wraps and tighten things up a bit for sure. But with Ultra-Sling type (pocket) slings, the question is, "Would offsetting an Ultra Sling type of sling (where you’re choking thru a pocket) around the spar away from the intended straight line direction of pull get more of a snubbing effect on a vertical spar (where there may be no branch stubs or anything for other support and no horizontal component to the vector force as with an angled branch)"? Should this offsetting, say 15-30 degrees, be kind of standard practice with pocket type slings on a vertical spar? Or is this just a daft idea? I must admit I haven’t tried it in-tree yet. I’d be interested in hearing anybody’s thoughts on this as I can’t recall seeing anything on this situation.
 
ghostice said:
Sorry if this question is from the Department of Redundancy Department/ stuff already covered somewhere.

I’ve spent the last little while in the Cave of Wonders, on and off, splicing up some light rigging gear and a question came to mind while brummeling up some Ultra-Sling type (pocket) slings.

View attachment 55511

When choking climbing lines on a spar during removals, many folks have made the point in their videos and articles of ensuring you are choking the bight against the direction you’ll be working in order to snub the trunk more efficiently - for example see @ 50 sec on Laurence Schultz’s video SRT Spar Work Setups (screen grab).

View attachment 55512

However, when I look for example at a recent gear failure video in the TreeBuzz thread below:
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/whats-the-first-mistake-made-in-this-rigging-failure.37488/
and the Youtube video at: 0:44 second run time (easier to see in the slow motion view)

In this case the sling holding the block doesn’t appear to be snubbed/ secured sufficiently and in fact is pulled a long way down the trunk. In other situations, if there is a long tail on the sling holding the block/ ring it would be easy to put in some extra wraps and tighten things up a bit for sure. But with Ultra-Sling type (pocket) slings, the question is, "Would offsetting an Ultra Sling type of sling (where you’re choking thru a pocket) around the spar away from the intended straight line direction of pull get more of a snubbing effect on a vertical spar (where there may be no branch stubs or anything for other support and no horizontal component to the vector force as with an angled branch)"? Should this offsetting, say 15-30 degrees, be kind of standard practice with pocket type slings on a vertical spar? Or is this just a daft idea? I must admit I haven’t tried it in-tree yet. I’d be interested in hearing anybody’s thoughts on this as I can’t recall seeing anything on this situation.
Click to expand...
the point i was making in the Schultz Effect about working against the bight has more to do with work positioning, working against the bight cinches down the rope tight and holds you securely, if you go with the bight your rope can slide with you, maybe even loosen up and slip down a bit.
with regard to rigging, you want to decrease the fall distance so there's less distance for the wood being negative rigged, or snubbed, to gain momentum (i.e. generate more force) before it is caught, therefor keep the neck of your sling short and tight. this can be hard to achieve with ultra slings. you can try offsetting if you want but i don't think it will decrease the fall distance. your best bet is a groundie who can let it run &/ or a strong enough sling and rope to handle the worst case scenario. imo.
 
Pfanner man said:
the point i was making in the Schultz Effect about working against the bight has more to do with work positioning, working against the bight cinches down the rope tight and holds you securely, if you go with the bight your rope can slide with you, maybe even loosen up and slip down a bit.
with regard to rigging, you want to decrease the fall distance so there's less distance for the wood being negative rigged, or snubbed, to gain momentum (i.e. generate more force) before it is caught, therefor keep the neck of your sling short and tight. this can be hard to achieve with ultra slings. you can try offsetting if you want but i don't think it will decrease the fall distance. your best bet is a groundie who can let it run &/ or a strong enough sling and rope to handle the worst case scenario. imo.
Click to expand...

The only way I can think to use a pocket sling in this scenario is to slip the ring through a pocket and then “timber hitch” the ring around the remaining sling but it’s a messy and inefficient solution.

As Lawrence pointed out, use a sling with a rope behind it so you can tie the tightest knot possible, or get a loopie sling if you want to avoid knots
 
Thanks for the thoughts all. On the pocket slings with rings, I've made the eyes as small as possible to just be able to get the ring thru. So not a lot left hanging downwards adding to the drop. Laurence, not thinking of using them to bomb large wood but was just wondering if offsetting a bit would snug pocket slings tighter as they're yanked downwards is all. And CanStan and Swingdude, agree about the dead eye slings for snugging up best. So much for my single malt thoughts at the bench. Stay safe out there.
p.s. Have now used the Shizll sling (one bought, one I made) and I think they are a really cool idea if you haven't tried them
https://www.shizll.com/product/spidersling-arboring/
 
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