Planting

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By all means, let's throw the baby out with the bath water. I have not read this most recent study, but those are some powerful directives you are stating. Anything can be done badly. Even something as necessary as applying water. Does that make water bad?

And anything that encourages in any way allowing grass to grow right up to the base of a trunk of a tree is not going to work. When was the last time you saw a healthy 2" caliper tree in grass with no weedwacker marks against it? And that's assuming that the homeowner doesn't keep banging into it with his lawn mower because he doesn't own a weedwacker. And even if you can state an example, it will be the exception not the rule.

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Regarding water: If it's done badly, it's bad. Mulch is no exception.

Regarding mechanical damage: That's not the point of the study.

How large is the root zone of a newly planted 2" caliper tree? Gilman recommends no mulch within a 12" radius of the trunk... close to the entire intact root zone.

Hey, I'm not preaching the gospel here. Gilman is a world renowned researcher; and regardless, his findings make good sense to me.
 
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Hey, I'm not preaching the gospel here. Gilman is a world renowned researcher; and regardless, his findings make good sense to me.

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That 12" of no mulch on either side method seems to be the inferior way to go here.

If mulch has a purpose at all for soil and moisture retention, then where else could it have more purpose that over the soil of the root ball?

I've seen what happens when the 24" wide area has no mulch, and the consequences are exactly why I put mulch there now.

Especially if it's a slope. The mulch can be watered, and the water slowly drips into the root ball from the mulch layer. But if there is 24" on a slight slope with no mulch, the water runs right off the hill, and erodes the fill soil.

It may depend on how watering is done. If someone is using drip or micro spray heads, maybe a different story for erosion.
 
A couple thoughts now that I have a minute...

Alot of this discussion about methods can differ depending on who the target audience is and how many, what type, and what size trees thaey are planting. For example, with our program here in Providence, we plant approximately 70 trees in a day, with several different volunteer groups (tree recipients) all over the city. At the beginning of each planting, I do a demonstration for the entire neighborhood group. There have been times when we use all three types of tree BR, B&B, cont. on one street or in one area (3 demo's). We used to cut the baskets, and we had a couple injuries with the cut wire (hands, wrists, one went through someone's hiking boot), so we don't do that any more. We bend the baskets down all the way, unless the ball is falling apart anyway, in which case we might as well take it out. The reason for keeping the ball at least somewhat intact is for stability. We don't want to stake every tree, and many of these street trees are in windy or high pedestrian areas, so this method helps for us. Would I love to remove every basket? He11 yes, but it just isn't feasible. I think I will try to remove more this Spring, if I can oversee the plantings more closely.

Diane, with BR trees, I have to say that the mound technique looks good on paper, but the root systems I have gotten (Schictel, Schmidt) are almost always irregular. I would change the wording to "Customize the profile of the mound to best fit each individual root system" or something. We had neighborhood groups dig out and make mounds in the past, only to destroy every one bc the root systems were funky-chicken.

As to the mulch debate, I trust Gilman, and I think he is a leader in our field, but I would like to know more of the specifics of that study. Watering practices, soil type, type of root ball, slope, exposure yadayadayada. Lots of variables. I'm gonna keep mulching, TYVM. :)

Oh, and I could not agree more about making sure the wording reflects finding the root flare vs. the grade. Maybe a small bit about tamping the bottom of the hole before planting. In many cases, holes are dug a little too deep, and need to be backfilled. If not tamped, well, you guys know what happens.

-Tom
 
Tom you are a wise man.

I too trust Gilman, and I have not read the results of the study in question, but when I saw him give this talk in Knoxville, he was intentionally vague and would not be nailed down to a reccommendation of no mulch. He did recognize the possibility of other benefits that were not being addressed in the study.
 
I have nothing but respect for Dr. Gilman. His research and writings have enlightened many of us with their findings.

I just caution anyone to beware that when new findings come out that seem contradictory to what you might think or believe, to do your research before jumping on the bandwagon. The situations and designs of the test criteria may not match where and how you need to apply the information.

Forests have been nurserying trees for millions of years in a mix of decomposed and nondecomposed litter layers. Grass has been flourishing for millions of years in open prairies. These situations seem to remain constant until man comes along seeking the one right way. The right way is the one that works in your situation.

Dave
 
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Regarding water: If it's done badly, it's bad. Mulch is no exception.

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Absolutely, but this horse has been beat to death. We need to constantly preach good cultural practices. Enough water, not too much, not too little. Mulching appropriately, not inappropriately.

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Regarding mechanical damage: That's not the point of the study.

[/ QUOTE ] And yet by saying that "grass would be better..." you are opening up the scenario for mechanical damage, which WILL occur if you try to grow grass up to the trunk of a tree. By simply stating that wasn't part of this particular research, is ignoring an obvious consequence. A statement such as this, taken out of context, can be wildly misconstrued.

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Hey, I'm not preaching the gospel here. Gilman is a world renowned researcher; and regardless, his findings make good sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ] No questions that Gilman is a highly respected researcher. But as others have said here, one size does not fit all. What we would recommend here in our portion of Montana with an annual rainfall of 9 to 12" would probably not be best for Florida with an annual rainfall of torrential proportions. A Zone 4 compared to a Zone 9. And researchers have been disproved before...sometimes by future findings themselves, sometimes by their peers. (I forget...are eggs good or bad today?)

If you are comfortable with his findings, fine. To state it as Best Management Practices for the entire industry, I would question highly.

Sylvia
 
I would never allow grass to grow anywhere near a root ball, let alone up to the trunk. Gilman wouldn't either, it's simply an interesting note that came from the study.

No bandwagon here. No formulas either. Each situation requires its own thoughtful process; the mark of a good arborist!

I mulch like crazy, but not on top of the root ball. Been doing it like this before I saw Gilman's session.

Lastly, I'm just regurgitating a few points from a large, time consuming study. And on an internet forum no less! My statements are not meant to be a summary of the findings.
 
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"Customize the profile of the mound to best fit each individual root system"

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Hi Tom,
Yes, yes, customize the profile of the mound. Customize for the region, for the soil, for water, tree, roots, mulch, etc. Customize, customize... as all these posts are stating.
As arborists we know this. If a list were compiled of all these conditions and possibilities most of the general public reading it would be overwhelmed.
That's why an arborist-on-site is so essential whenever/wherever trees are planted.

-Diane-
 
when we plant we make a rain ring with mulch. And we put on the top a little to. We make our own baskets with twine. Pretty much do it all from start to finish we pull the trees out of our nursery with the spade truck and weave the basket and pull them tight "bag and ball" its pretty cool i look at it as we are replenishing the trees. but we haven’t planted whips in a long time so the nursery is getting smaller and smaller they will probably eventually buy the trees.
 
Yesterday's client said "i think i planted these right; i tried to pull the circling roots loose"

i said well while we are here pruning by the hour why not let us check...ok so we did, pic before
 

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installed; roots aimed into a much wider, amended bed, there to get their beauty sleep. never mind the 1-3 year research window most studies look through--who would say that in 10-more years this tree will not be stronger and safer than if left pretzelrooted?
 

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Ok I know everone here knows this, but one thing that I have come across with BB trees is the amount of main roots cut by the spade, and the amount of compaction it puts on the roots when you have to find root flare.
With the BR trees depending on the site we have added water asorbant crystals to the amended soil to help with the watering. Along with the BB plantings
As for the mulch 1" near the root flare and 2" out from there to just past the drip line.
I have done more with Transplantings lately than any others just to thin out clump plantings.Any thoughts there?
Nate
 
This is a good thread and reading the recommendations along with the input regarding zone differences, I'm impressed. I think TB and it's members have grown symbiotic of each other.

I've thought back when browsing these pointers, can remember hauling myself up a dead cottonwood in Iowa, using hemp 1" rope from a haybarn and then pulling-up a David Bradley gear-driven saw. I could almost see Nebraska from there, and that's when I knew what I wanted to do just had to let a war go by and other distractions but what a long way we've all travelled to now, and there's much more to come.

Other than apples and black walnuts, the idea of "planting a tree" seemed so crazy back then, the mentality of the time was to keep removing them, everywhere.
 
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I have done more with Transplantings lately than any others just to thin out clump plantings.Any thoughts there?
Nate

[/ QUOTE ]Yes nate now that you mention it, if I had a ton of time or better planning maybe i would have chucked those riverbirch rootballs into a bucket and washed off all the medium and if the "clump tree" was actually 3 individual trees I should have pulled them apart and planted them 2-4' apart.

But I didn't. o well maybe next time. as it was i contented myself with correcting the worst of the girdling roots that are inevitable with clumps.

Nice post Reed. Sometimes this site clicks nicely. David Bradley?...Thanks for making me feel younger; after working a rare 9 hour day I was not feeling so fresh.

ThanksTaylor; it all starts with growing a faithful clientele that lets you work on the clock so you have the time to give the trees what they deserve.

I told the client i was taking pics and she said oo oo send me some; you know they were instrumental in guiding and gliding the pen across the checkbook.

I love being an arborist.
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