Petzl tackles LEAD(Pb) Throw bag issue?

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RopeShield

RopeShield

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Ontario, Canada
I am happy to see that they are concerned with Lead being released into the environment. And I congratulate them for their effort.
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Here is the Petzl recycling program.
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/recycling-jet-throw-bag-petzl

On the other hand.
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What about your personal safe handling of a Lead weighted bag? The internal balloon wears, ruptures and degrades without a visual sign and the Lead is then pulverized and dusts up or oozes from the bag. It is just a balloon after all.

Is a recycling program enough?
What is your take on this?
 
Agreed. We need to do away with lead in throw bags. I have broken several that scattered lead shot everywhere. Wash those hands before eating lunch.
 
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we have to wait a year to see the results of this poll?

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Yah a year is a long time.
Please be patient, I proposed this over three years ago to all the big dealers, manufactures, ISA etc and it is now finally happening with Petzl taking the lead to get a handle on the LEAD.
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Cheers.
 
As far as I know Harrison Rockets are the only bags made with a balloon that holds lead shot. Maybe others have gotten on board. Let me know if any manufacturers have done that too.

In the whole scheme of work/life hazards I'm not too concerned about lead dust. Maybe I'm naive...educate me. Very few of my throwbags have ever oozed gray slime or poofed powder. Many years ago some lesser quality bags blew out seams. When that started happening I used a different companie's bags. New Tribe was the first and best bags for a long time.

Many years ago Paul Sissel, the maker of the double-CMI MarBars tried to find a substitute for lead shot. What he found was that the next best shot, as far as density, was close, but WAYYYYY expensive. Lead was the best value. In order to hit a price point the bags would have had to be made much larger.
 
Any coating would chip off and the composite metals are mucho expensive.
Brass and copper are next best but like Tom said the bag would be near double the size/bulkier

The next best metal weight and bulk wise wood be PLATINUM but then your throw weight would cost you a month of Sundays of partying at the Playboy mansion with all the accoutrements, just a rough estimate if we valued dollars the way Charlie "tiger blood" Sheen once did.
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Most all manufactures have gone with a balloon.

Would you wear a rubber more than once?



You don't wash yours and reuse them!?!?!?
 
I hate to sound like an environmental freak, but I actually took a couple of my lead filled throw bags apart, took out the lead that was in a balloon and refilled with steel.
Wesspur is one of the leaders in environmentally friendly throw bags and list their bags with steel or lead in the product description.
....Available in 8oz - 20oz sizes. Filled with steel shot.
Not that much price difference.
Some sellers may say nickel or zink but most likely zink or copper COATED steel.
Interesting note. I can buy 25#'s of bb LEAD shot for 72 dollars or 25#'s of zink coated steel shot for about 45 dollars. The steel is actually less and even less if you get it un-coated then put it in a balloon to keep it from rusting.

steel shot cost less than lead

What is lead poisoning

They say that they use lead because it deforms and does not damage the casing as much, personally I also have not found this to be an issue to justify it's use.
Not that much size difference in the ones I changed out and certainly not enough to make an issue.
Reality, probably not much risk until the bag breaks, would I want it around if I had small children, probably not.

Years ago they used to insulate power lines with lead and I still remember (to my surprise, read the lead warnings) going out after the storms and collection some of the lead, melting it down and making cool things with it. Maybe I could have won spelling bee's if I wasn't having such a good time playing with lead and I would not have to use the damn spell checker so much now.
So when you say Petzl is doing something, I would probably agree but just beating the drum loader than others that have already addressed the issue. Thanks Wesspur!
 
I don't worry that much about the lead. I just wish someone would make a dependable throwbag that would LAST. I've been through a dozen of the plain ones from WesSpur, and had one of their "Unbreakable" bags burst not long ago. Granted, I buy mine to use and I don't pamper them, but I have had more than one burst before the 20th throw, one on about the 4th or 5th throw.
 
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Thin hard plastic covering each ball then use a balloon

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That would take up space and lessen the density of the lead. Might as well go with steel.

I looked at using Bismuth. That is used in lead-free shotgun shells and things of the sort. At the rate I last checked, it would have made for approx a $50 throwbag. I'm super tree huggerish, so I'd happily pay the $50 for the piece of mind.

That said, I had a harrison rocket blow out the other day. I take blame. It had a busted seam for a few months and I neglected to sew it back up. Eventually it broke completely. Luckily, the balloon remained intact and I had an easy cleanup!

namaste
nick

(I'm kidding- I don't actually say namaste!)
 
its very important to recognize the toxicity of lead for children.. it does severe neurological damage..... BRAIN DAMAGE..

Keep the throw balls away from your kids...

ever watch an old bag hit the ground and spew out a puff of white smoke...

also old PVC furniture that has a white hazy film on it, that's lead. As the plastic degrades in the sun, the lead is left...

throw that stuff out...
 
from the above cited wikipedia page on lead poisoning

Children are especially prone to the health effects of lead and as a result, blood lead levels must be set lower and closely monitored if contamination is possible.[2] The major treatments are removal of the source of lead and chelation therapy (administration of agents that bind lead so it can be excreted).
Although lead poisoning is one of the oldest known work and environmental hazards, the modern understanding of the small amount of lead necessary to cause harm did not come about until the latter half of the 20th century. No safe threshold for lead exposure has been discovered—that is, there is no known amount of lead that is too small to cause the body harm.
 
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I wonder if Tungsten would work?

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There are two reasons lead is used. One, they say the deformation qualities of lead on impact lesson the damage to the container, the vinyl, rubber, leather or whatever the pouch is made of.
Maybe if if they were hitting concrete or rock walls but I don't think that is really a problem hitting dirt, trees or grass.
Second, lead has the best weight to mass ratio reducing resistance when traveling thru the air. Again, probably an issue coming out of a shotgun barrel. But a throw bag?

Steel works well, it is cheaper and does not have the environmental impact!

I took two exact 12oz (+-.05) baggies of material, lead and copper coated steel, put them side by side to see the mass. Look at those and tell me that size would make a difference in the trajectory of your bag.
I did not have any steel pellets the same size as the lead, but if I did I suspect you would hardly be able to see the difference in size.

I suspect lead is used out of tradition and mostly gone unnoticed.

I am happy someone made a post of this. Maybe it is time to get the lead out and send it off with the Blakes hitch. (Ok, I take that back, the Blakes hitch is a fine knot)
 

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