ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
I'm sure this has been hashed out before, but @Phil brought it up in the "Are climbing competitions waste" thread. Rather than distracting too much there, I thought I'd start anew.
@Tom Dunlap - you were on ANSI Z133 committee, right?
This started with a link to a logging standard, to which I replied OSHA cannot apply a different industry standard. Phil replied:
So are you saying our industry is not regulated by OSHA at all? Do we not follow fall arrest osha protocol even though there is no specific "arboriculture" standard? Ansi will never write a citation for a violation of their standard unless I'm totally mistaken. If there is a fatality on a job site, is it not osha that sends investigators?
I'm not here to argue, but offer what I understand and to learn from others. I think those are very good and common questions. Here is my understanding...but don't take this for fact, just a discussion starter!
So are you saying our industry is not regulated by OSHA at all? Not saying that at all. Just that there isn't a specific standard for our industry (stay with me...)
Do we not follow fall arrest osha protocol even though there is no specific "arboriculture" standard? Which protocol? The construction one that says you must be tied into a support system labeled as being rated for life support? (excuse my sarcasm, but I haven't found that label on a tree yet!)
Ansi will never write a citation for a violation of their standard unless I'm totally mistaken. That is correct...ANSI just writes standards (actually, the industry sets the standards, ANSI just documents and standardizes them (as best I understand the process))
If there is a fatality on a job site, is it not osha that sends investigators? Yes!
Now to fill in some blanks between those questions:
OSHA will apply the general duty clause:
(a)
Each employer --
(1)
29 USC 654
shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees;
(2)
shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act.
(b)
Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct.
---
What does that mean? Great question! Maybe everything they want it to mean. Maybe nothing at all!
OSHA cannot apply an industry specific standard to another industry (See the construction example above. Or the logging standard).
In absence of an industry specific OSHA Standard, they will revert to industry standards. For us that is (probably) the Z133. As I understand it, if you are following all of those standards and an injury happens, you have a pretty good defense against OSHA fines. Not as good as you'd have if you were following an industry specific OSHA written standard...but pretty good. If you deviate from the Z, probably a pretty good chance you will be hit. Not as good of a chance if you deviated from an industry specific OSHA written standard...but pretty good.
TCIA has been pushing OSHA for years to write an industry specific standard, but that hasn't happened. In probably 2008ish, OSHA put out a memo that said the logging standard now applied to tree care. That stood for a couple of weeks. It just doesn't work for our industry.
Once again...I am more than open to correction on any point. Much of my understanding came from a discussion with TCIA after I had to sit through safety training for a larger corporation before working on their trees. It was all construction and confined space safety stuff. I sat through it quietly then called TCIA to ask whaaaat? "I haven't seen a tree stamped with a label saying it is approved for life support tie in!" They said the get this question all the time and explained much of the above. I also try to read/keep up with what is what. My degree is in forestry, with a focus on industrial forestry operations, so we also had these discussions at college (25 years ago...).
@Tom Dunlap - you were on ANSI Z133 committee, right?
This started with a link to a logging standard, to which I replied OSHA cannot apply a different industry standard. Phil replied:
So are you saying our industry is not regulated by OSHA at all? Do we not follow fall arrest osha protocol even though there is no specific "arboriculture" standard? Ansi will never write a citation for a violation of their standard unless I'm totally mistaken. If there is a fatality on a job site, is it not osha that sends investigators?
I'm not here to argue, but offer what I understand and to learn from others. I think those are very good and common questions. Here is my understanding...but don't take this for fact, just a discussion starter!
So are you saying our industry is not regulated by OSHA at all? Not saying that at all. Just that there isn't a specific standard for our industry (stay with me...)
Do we not follow fall arrest osha protocol even though there is no specific "arboriculture" standard? Which protocol? The construction one that says you must be tied into a support system labeled as being rated for life support? (excuse my sarcasm, but I haven't found that label on a tree yet!)
Ansi will never write a citation for a violation of their standard unless I'm totally mistaken. That is correct...ANSI just writes standards (actually, the industry sets the standards, ANSI just documents and standardizes them (as best I understand the process))
If there is a fatality on a job site, is it not osha that sends investigators? Yes!
Now to fill in some blanks between those questions:
OSHA will apply the general duty clause:
(a)
Each employer --
(1)
29 USC 654
shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees;
(2)
shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act.
(b)
Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct.
---
What does that mean? Great question! Maybe everything they want it to mean. Maybe nothing at all!
OSHA cannot apply an industry specific standard to another industry (See the construction example above. Or the logging standard).
In absence of an industry specific OSHA Standard, they will revert to industry standards. For us that is (probably) the Z133. As I understand it, if you are following all of those standards and an injury happens, you have a pretty good defense against OSHA fines. Not as good as you'd have if you were following an industry specific OSHA written standard...but pretty good. If you deviate from the Z, probably a pretty good chance you will be hit. Not as good of a chance if you deviated from an industry specific OSHA written standard...but pretty good.
TCIA has been pushing OSHA for years to write an industry specific standard, but that hasn't happened. In probably 2008ish, OSHA put out a memo that said the logging standard now applied to tree care. That stood for a couple of weeks. It just doesn't work for our industry.
Once again...I am more than open to correction on any point. Much of my understanding came from a discussion with TCIA after I had to sit through safety training for a larger corporation before working on their trees. It was all construction and confined space safety stuff. I sat through it quietly then called TCIA to ask whaaaat? "I haven't seen a tree stamped with a label saying it is approved for life support tie in!" They said the get this question all the time and explained much of the above. I also try to read/keep up with what is what. My degree is in forestry, with a focus on industrial forestry operations, so we also had these discussions at college (25 years ago...).
Last edited:
