One is none, two is one and three is WON?

This really makes me think about the value of two climb systems as a default. The second could be a full length (to the ground) or a shorter length or a long lanyard. The third system bring a normal lanyard.

It gets gear intensive, and not necessarily efficient rather quickly.

I see a place here for technology to identify and warn when having a single life connection and ideally preventing any disconnect of said connection.
 
I did a two climber-two day job in one day today. 3 large Red Oaks and 2 large Blk cherries reduce over the pool and the house. with a steady diet of beer and hot dogs. :tarjetaroja: kidding on the beer and dogs :p
there was a second climber to srt up and set two lines to speed me/things up. I didn't touch the ground for the entire day and most of the work high leads and horizontals at 50 to 80ft a couple nearing 100
mostly on LJ and SJ and tree to tree and any 15 plus ascents on SRT.
always with two life systems plus a positioning lanyard and 3rd short rope for control to go back centre, wouldn't need that if my lanyard was longer.
Once you get used to this type of system for this type of work it is as fast or faster and safer and alot more smiles beca'use the fine tuning in work positioning wether your hangin or standin is much more comfy.
its a lot of roping and rigging as well but with a good ground man runnin the ropes it is pretty enjoyable.
don't get me wrong there are moments of fn pig this f that.
on removal it can get to be too much to manage alot of rope so I will keep one in a bag on the hip and short rope and wire core. and when transition I will just hard tie to tree and work end thru the sternal grab. It quick and easy and safe instead of just relying on one tip or just the lanyard.
thanks for reading :estudioso:
 
I am a purely rec climber, and I used a webbing loop as a backup while learning how to use a lanyard and advance my TIP, I was much more confident that I wouldn't fall that way. Helped me a lot, but I stopped using a backup because I felt I didn't need all that extra backup, and also because it was a hassle to find places to girth hitch a webbing loop that would't cause me to fall a small distance in the event of a lanyard failure. This would have been a very hard fall, due to webbing loops being essentialy 100% static.
 
I am also bringing a 2nd rope into larger trees I prune. I have had some bad anchor ideas, experimenting with piggy backed srt lines, but in the long run, I think its more effective than climbing harder to move a single TIP.
 
I’ve been known to spur up a big conifer to 150 ft - 200 ft with nothing but a flipline, before I get a proper tie in.. Is that bad?
 
rico said:
I’ve been known to spur up a big conifer to 150 ft - 200 ft with nothing but a flipline, before I get a proper tie in.. Is that bad?
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ANSI wants to see that second tie in if you're running a chainsaw. I doubt that second lanyard would save anyone that cuts the first one if both lanyards are on the same spar.
For just climbing though, you're good in the eyes of ANSI.

I do like what you're trying to do @RopeShield . It's fuckin heartbreaking to keep hearing about these falls.
 
As someone totally on the outside and with all due respect to those in the know, it seems when climbing from a high tip which is often hard to see that a second line shot over the last large branch (different from the primary tip) would be damn good to do at the very least until the primary tip is inspected from close up to verify the tips integrity?
 
southsoundtree said:
Man up and go higher


lol
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When I was rigging trees for a yarder back in the early 80's, you rolled up a big stick with a 7/8" flipline, limbing it with a saw with a 28" bar. Once you got to your destination you blew a big top, then pulled up and set 2 big blocks and straps (90 lbs each), then set haywire for guy wires. When the rigging was set up you hit the ground, went back and fell the last tree you had rigged up, pack all the shit through the woods to the next tree your hook-tender had picked, and did it over and over. All day long. Toughest work I have ever done. When I arrived I was a 150lbs little boy, and in 2-3 season I was a 195lbs menace to society!
 
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I actually think of this frequently. The extra line would be a epic pain in the ass. However going out on the tips and taking my flip line around a 1.5” Doug fir limb 15’ our from the trunk. Who am I kidding with being tied in twice? If I cut my primary there is no chance in hell that limb will hold! The obvious solution is a second climbing line, this could be short, but would certainly add to clutter.
 
Personally I just don't feel comfortable at a decent height being tied in with just a lanyard. Like when I was doing crane jobs and I'd be at the top and doing the transition between being tied into the crane to wrapping my line around the trunk as a back up / bail out, I couldn't get comfortable for those brief seconds where I was just tied in with a lanyard. I always like to have my climbing line tied into the tree either normally or cinched around the trunk if I have to.

rico said:
When I was rigging trees for a yarder back in the early 80's, you rolled up a big stick with a 7/8" flipline, limbing it with a saw with a 28" bar. Once you got to your destination you blew a big top, then pulled up and set 2 big blocks and straps (90 lbs each), then set haywire for guy wires. When the rigging was set up you hit the ground, went back and fell the last tree you had rigged up, pack all the shit through the woods to the next tree your hook-tender had picked, and did it over and over. All day long. Toughest work I have ever done. When I arrived I was a 150lbs little boy, and in 2-3 season I was a 195lbs menace to society!
Click to expand...

The old school loggers only used a flip line and spurs. There was no ddrt or srt.
 
evo said:
I actually think of this frequently. The extra line would be a epic pain in the ass. However going out on the tips and taking my flip line around a 1.5” Doug fir limb 15’ our from the trunk. Who am I kidding with being tied in twice? If I cut my primary there is no chance in hell that limb will hold! The obvious solution is a second climbing line, this could be short, but would certainly add to clutter.
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I agree completely that it’s really not a life support tie in, but we do it all the time. I will however say that when I am forced to use my lanyard in a situation you describe, body position always puts the saw down and away from my primary tip. I would be more likely to cut my secondary (lanyard) tie in.
Two lines would be a supreme PIA I believe (I know some guys are doing it already). But when needed I do pull my tail up and use it as a second tip is I see fit and no extra gear... just an old school closed tautline.
 
evo said:
I actually think of this frequently. The extra line would be a epic pain in the ass. However going out on the tips and taking my flip line around a 1.5” Doug fir limb 15’ our from the trunk. Who am I kidding with being tied in twice? If I cut my primary there is no chance in hell that limb will hold! The obvious solution is a second climbing line, this could be short, but would certainly add to clutter.
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If you set a high TIP with a throw line, you can pull up two SRT systems, or even two ropes, one with a friction hitch if you don't have 2 devices.

You're lanyard is still for work-positioning, and you still have two life supports.

If run together, keep one slack, and one as primary, not sharing 1/2 and 1/2. Hard to cut a slack rope.
 
I frequently utilize two climb lines and always have a double side lanyard on me. Two climb lines stationary set from the ground with one throw line and basal anchored work well. When I start this fashion in a difficult tree to set highest/ best /primary work positioning point. I can aim lower for a nice union and literally leap frog my way up if needed by alternating climb lines to the next best point to pitch my way up the tree. This way I'm always tied in twice as I move up with at least 1 climb line and 1 lanyard , sometimes another anchor point via other half of lanyard if needed. I keep a relatively short lanyard 12ish feet that stays tidy on the hip and short , because I use two climb lines. I lanyard in things close to me only and use an srt retrievable redirect for longer moves If I need to move away from an anchor point the ease of setting a redi to belay away from is easy and comfortable always with 2 climb lines. Retrieval is usually simple pony tail is used tail on backside of redi, or capture of horizontal span of line that's on backside of redi with tail of what ever climb line has more tail , pony tail is preferred for ease of use and ability to route tail forward and to next redirect preset, waiting for use. All while still tied in with one line and usaully a lanyard while making moves like this. make sure while in use you can get to the ground in case of emergency, even if one redi cannot at least one line can..the other should be able to get you back to plumb very rapidly if needed and other can get you put of the tree..This can get like spaghetti and confusing if your not careful with your routes. Choose unions that work , don't bend the line too hard for smooth retrieves.. sometimes you can set retrieve that lifts redi up and over higher new spot.. this all just takes time and practice with line placement..All trees are different but, one fairly to much longer than tree is tall or wide a line and one just a bit longer than tree is tall. It's all all about your plan for the tree and the scope of the work for line length choice. All in all i love dual rope climbing and it is not as bad as one may think after sometime is invested in it. Where at first it was hard now it saves me much time and effort. There is many cases moving about a big tree I'm still blown away at how fast you can move through points that would be strenuous and hard with just one line and even a long lanyard. i think it was in 2014 I started really pushing myself with practicing 2 line climbing ..2015 or was it 2016 @oceans came by to visit with me as we were both sorta reveling on bulldogg bone or dsrt thread together how great the bones were for dual rope climbs. Had some good climbs together. In that visit sorta concreted it's use for me, validating some things and Learning some others from ol whip himself.. He's kind of celebrity in tree industry if you didn't know it ! Lol! Quick tip; I find with a throw weight to toss around on fall of line and two ropes I can access places in a crown with ease and comfort. I hopefully someone can pick up on my time pressed less than eloquent words..p.s.
my go to systems are dual bulldogg bones or wrenches..I used to get all swivels up but have recently this season switched back to just a ring on my bridge and it works just as well.. having a mirror system on separate bridges with different colored lines works best for me.
 
southsoundtree said:
If you set a high TIP with a throw line, you can pull up two SRT systems, or even two ropes, one with a friction hitch if you don't have 2 devices.

You're lanyard is still for work-positioning, and you still have two life supports.

If run together, keep one slack, and one as primary, not sharing 1/2 and 1/2. Hard to cut a slack rope.
Click to expand...
A less cumbersome method if using SRT is to have a long lanyard and your work positioning.
Say if your going out for a limb walk just ponytail to your main line walk out the limb and the connection is quickly out of saw reach . So if you were to cut either rope you have your backup tied above. I rather drag up a second rope flip than fight two lines.
Yes you always have your tail, frequently a under utilized resource with newer techie climbers
 
evo said:
A less cumbersome method if using SRT is to have a long lanyard and your work positioning.
Say if your going out for a limb walk just ponytail to your main line walk out the limb and the connection is quickly out of saw reach . So if you were to cut either rope you have your backup tied above. I rather drag up a second rope flip than fight two lines.
Yes you always have your tail, frequently a under utilized resource with newer techie climbers
Click to expand...

The tail also creates lots of opportunities for a loop of rope to get stuck in the lower canopy in big conifers. It takes extra keen rope management to utilize the tail efficiently
 
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