Noob question on taking tree down in sections

In some situations you can take a tree down in sections, going from top to bottom, but not all. The first section, the top, has to fall past the rest of the tree below it, getting snagged on another branch on the way down, or being deflected somewhere you don't it to, can happen. You can get different results using different type hinges, as you stated.

As others have stated, you need to do more research on how tree work is currently done, rather then coming into it with preconceived ideas that don't fit every tree job.

Good luck!
 
semifnordic said:
Here's my advice, from someone who's also a new climber and not a pro, just a guy who likes trees:
  • Keep researching climbing -- terminology, equipment, safety, techniques. It's fun! Once you know some of the basics, start getting equipment -- although you can climb with just a rope and a saddle (which will still set you back a couple hundred dollars) and knowledge of a handful of knots, you're going to want more gear to make the experience safer, easier, and more enjoyable (this can be an addiction on its own, and you can very easily drop a grand on climbing equipment alone).
  • Practice climbing. Get comfortable with different techniques, and learn how to safely and predictably get in and out of, and move around in, a tree. I'm basically at this stage. Learning new skills and techniques is fun! While I'm okay with using a chainsaw on the ground (I'm hesitant to say "comfortable" with -- it's when you get too comfortable with things that they bite you!), the most cutting I've done in a tree is using a handsaw to trim small (<3" or so) limbs while I'm securely attached with both my climbing rope and my lanyard. Your first post you stated "I would like to start doing straight forward ,simple climbing work. Anything complicated I'm going to leave for the pros." Climbing a medium size tree and removing some small dead limbs with a handsaw is about the most straight forward and simple climbing work that you could do -- and even that you need to be careful. I've seen videos where what you'd think was barely a nick with a handsaw to your climbing rope resulted in complete failure of the rope. At the stage we're at now, using a chainsaw to take a tree down in sections is in the category of "complicated things best left to the pros"
  • Once you are aware of the basics and starting to get some practice in, feel free to ask questions! In my short time here, I've found the people on this forum generally very helpful and willing to share information. But, you'll get much better results when you've done your homework and have some questions on specific things. It's the difference between asking [Please tell me in a forum post how to do this very complicated, dangerous thing] and [I mostly understand this concept but I'm having trouble with one part of it]. @cerviarborist and others aren't trying to be rude or withhold information -- they're trying to tell you that they don't think you're prepared to tackle something like this. Saying "I'm a new climber, but I can use a saw on the ground, please tell me how to take a 30' top off a tree, I'll figure out the rest" is like saying "I've ridden a bicycle a few times, please tell me how to operate the air brake on an 18-wheeler, I'll figure out the rest".
  • Once you can climb up, down, and around a tree, know a few techniques for doing so, and can do so consistently and safely, then you can think about hauling up a chainsaw and taking larger wood. Again, I'm not at this stage yet. We'll see if / when that happens. But I certainly won't think about it until I'm more educated and practiced. As another example of how to approach a forum of mostly professionals, I'm sure if you came in here saying you've been climbing for a while, and done some trimming and removed some larger limbs in pieces on a few trees, but you've never taken a top before and wanted some pointers, people would be happy to help. Or bring a few photos of a specific tree and ask people how they'd handle it.
In short -- don't get put off by replies that are trying to keep you alive. This shit is dangerous, tree pieces are heavy, chainsaws are sharp, and all will happily kill you in multiple unpleasant ways if you let them. It can be handled -- and you can learn how to do it -- it just takes time and effort. You need to study on your own, ask specific questions, start slowly, and practice. Taking down a tree in pieces is not starting slowly -- it's one of the more complex things that you can work up to once you're more comfortable with the basics.
Click to expand...

@semifnordic; Best, most eloquent post I've read in a long, long time. Nicely done.

Tim
 
Beetle

You're getting replies that show so much compassion. Since you're in learning mode spend some time in the Awakenings forum. That's a reality check

When I hired someone with chainsaw or climbing experience they started out doing limbing and blocking on the ground or pruning/removing 10" diameter trees. Some didn't go Any further without more training. And this is in a full time situation with a crew around to watch/rescue/coach them

Take the time to watch this vid. Not that you're (hopefully) going to take on a project of
This magnitude. But...watch each cut. Try to second guess the climber. What's his next move?

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threa...m-bottom-to-the-top-and-back-4-5-hours.37303/
 
@beetle_X; Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! I agree with everything said by @semifnordic. I would also like to add that you should visit the website of climbingarborist.com. Go to this website, and not the YouTube presence. On the website the host of the site has categorized videos on most aspects of climbing and rigging, which makes it a lot easier to focus on the area you are trying to learn.

Climbing all by itself is a very complex skill, and it takes time just to find out what works for you. It is also easy to have things happen that you might not expect, and you can get yourself into trouble just trying to do the simplest things. So you need to have backups built into your climbing systems, and you need to think about every move you make, and try to predict outcomes before they happen. Try to have a way to communicate with someone on the ground, in an emergency. Most of the time, you are going to need to be able to get yourself out of whatever trouble you get yourself into. So it's better not to get into trouble in the first place by being careful and planning your moves, and predicting outcomes. If you are not sure what will happen if you make some move you're thinking of, don't make it. Step back and think about it a little until you are sure. This will help keep you out of trouble.

I think you might need to get at least a year of climbing using rope and saddle under your belt before you consider trying to drop a top. Probably longer than that.

I hope you haven't given up on this forum, and that you actually get to read all of this, otherwise I just expended 10 minutes of my life that I'll never get back, for little effect. Thanks for listening.

Tim
 
TimBr said:
@beetle_X
I think you might need to get at least a year of climbing using rope and saddle under your belt before you consider trying to drop a top. Probably longer than that.
Tim
Click to expand...
Personally, I spent a year climbing before I felt safe & comfortable taking / using a handsaw to do pruning.
.............. chainsaws are another level !
 
My recent customer was able to successfully take down a bunch of trees before one set back on him (calling me at 4pm on Saturday, tree leaning toward his house). Leaning alders...when he felt some popping under his feet, from the hinge transmitted to the roots, he ran. hahahaha.
 
beetle_X said:
Is the the free exchange of information below you? Where's the delete account button for this forum?
Click to expand...

Nobody here wants you to get hurt. Don't take the comments the wrong way. Anytime you leave the ground you need to have your A game, doesn't matter if it is a rec climb. Add a saw to the mix and bad things can happen fast. Please be careful and make sure you are comfortable rec climbing first. Practice doing work positioning.
 
southsoundtree said:
My recent customer was able to successfully take down a bunch of trees before one set back on him (calling me at 4pm on Saturday, tree leaning toward his house). Leaning alders...when he felt some popping under his feet, from the hinge transmitted to the roots, he ran. hahahaha.
Click to expand...

Good on him to recognize that something was going wrong, and to run! The fellers who are not still alive ignored the warning signs as they happened.
-AJ
 
TimBr said:
@moss; Yep. The "Gift of Fear" can save a person's life if they're willing to listen to it. He seems like a smart guy to me.
Click to expand...

People ask me if I am afraid of heights. I always saw a little, but being a little scared keeps me safe. It keeps me questioning if it is time to retire rope and gear. It keeps me questioning if the branch I am about to tie into is safe.

As an electrician I saw many experienced guys get hurt. It was almost always because they got comfortable working on 480V and forgot how bad it can bite. A healthy amount of fear is a good thing, too much and you get petrified and too little and you get fried.
 
I think this industry has a problem as a whole. The attitude towards new people is often terrible. It is also self perpetuating. Lots and lots of complaining about the "new wave of youtube climbers" but often very little in the way of real answers or solutions on how to get real training. The idea of hiring a guy and watching ... what if the person he hires is an unsafe clown? As noted, there are lots of them.

A local friend that owns a farm wanted to cut down several big sprawling trees. Over a beer one night we discussed the project. I offered to do the cutting work for free, or to help. He is a real DIY guy, and he wants to do it. I tried and tried to find him a local class, or even a class in the state about climbing. Nothing. Indoor "rock" climbing is as close as we could find.

I've showed him some things, and he is now a safe climber by my standards. Like many people on the internet, I'm afraid to teach him things because I fear things may go wrong when I'm not there. Plus I have no curriculum, and I'm really not qualified to run a class. Some things you just can't learn by fire, and I'm disorganized. Just as one scary example, he bought locking biners, but not auto locking ones. No big deal, except he didn't know how to tell, so he assumed they auto locked. He wasn't spinning the gate lock to the locked position. A real class could have taken a whole day on equipment, I used what I had. Like the sentiment here, he didn't know that he didn't know.

So yea ... what semifnordic said. Learn to use a hand saw on the ground. Separate your climbing from your cutting. Learn to climb low and slow.
 
adaycj said:
I think this industry has a problem as a whole. The attitude towards new people is often terrible. It is also self perpetuating. Lots and lots of complaining about the "new wave of youtube climbers" but often very little in the way of real answers or solutions on how to get real training. The idea of hiring a guy and watching ... what if the person he hires is an unsafe clown? As noted, there are lots of them.

A local friend that owns a farm wanted to cut down several big sprawling trees. Over a beer one night we discussed the project. I offered to do the cutting work for free, or to help. He is a real DIY guy, and he wants to do it. I tried and tried to find him a local class, or even a class in the state about climbing. Nothing. Indoor "rock" climbing is as close as we could find.

I've showed him some things, and he is now a safe climber by my standards. Like many people on the internet, I'm afraid to teach him things because I fear things may go wrong when I'm not there. Plus I have no curriculum, and I'm really not qualified to run a class. Some things you just can't learn by fire, and I'm disorganized. Just as one scary example, he bought locking biners, but not auto locking ones. No big deal, except he didn't know how to tell, so he assumed they auto locked. He wasn't spinning the gate lock to the locked position. A real class could have taken a whole day on equipment, I used what I had. Like the sentiment here, he didn't know that he didn't know.

So yea ... what semifnordic said. Learn to use a hand saw on the ground. Separate your climbing from your cutting. Learn to climb low and slow.
Click to expand...

You might not have a curriculum but good on you for teaching someone. Being able to teach a subject is part of mastery of a subject.
 
When I first started, I used to work long days as a groundsman in Boston. Immediately after work I'd walk to the cemetary and learn to climb trees spurless, no cutting. So happy I first learned to climb without spikes, and free of the pressures of production and chainsaw use. I think it helped me progress much quicker.
 
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