SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
New Petzl Basic - first impressions
- Thread starter SingleJack
- Start date
SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
The new Petzl Basic ascender is smaller, lighter, thinner, 8-11mm.
This video is a subjective comparison of the 'new' vs. the 'old' Basic.
Upon further evaluation:
Climbed with it rigged as a knee ascender on 11mm Blaze ... worked fine, IMO.
The 1/2" (13mm) line did work BUT NOT RECOMMENDED.
Overall ... the new Basic seems a little 'light-duty' for tree work.
In light of the ZigZag failure ... and the recent New Croll failure (also made of thinner stock); Petzl needs to stop catering to the crazies who weigh their shoe strings ... SAD.
I wish I would have bought more of the old style.
This video is a subjective comparison of the 'new' vs. the 'old' Basic.
Upon further evaluation:
Climbed with it rigged as a knee ascender on 11mm Blaze ... worked fine, IMO.
The 1/2" (13mm) line did work BUT NOT RECOMMENDED.
Overall ... the new Basic seems a little 'light-duty' for tree work.
In light of the ZigZag failure ... and the recent New Croll failure (also made of thinner stock); Petzl needs to stop catering to the crazies who weigh their shoe strings ... SAD.
I wish I would have bought more of the old style.
Thanks for posting SJ.
Watching your vid gave me yet another crazy idea, so bear with me here.
Big shot up into a nice 75 foot or so TIP. Then pull two climbing lines up through that crotch and back down to the base and tie them both off.
Then tie both working ends to 100 lb weights so that each weight is suspended about a foot or so off the ground. This effectively takes most of the stretch out of both climbing lines going up the tree.
Now hook up four ascenders to the lines. One for each hand, one for each foot. Right hand and foot on one line, left hand and foot on the other.
IMO this should allow the climber to basically run up those ropes almost like a ladder.
Sounds crazy I know, but I think it would work. The safety nazis could be mollified by using an additional couple of mechanical or traditional prussics as safety back ups, one on each line.
jomoco
Watching your vid gave me yet another crazy idea, so bear with me here.
Big shot up into a nice 75 foot or so TIP. Then pull two climbing lines up through that crotch and back down to the base and tie them both off.
Then tie both working ends to 100 lb weights so that each weight is suspended about a foot or so off the ground. This effectively takes most of the stretch out of both climbing lines going up the tree.
Now hook up four ascenders to the lines. One for each hand, one for each foot. Right hand and foot on one line, left hand and foot on the other.
IMO this should allow the climber to basically run up those ropes almost like a ladder.
Sounds crazy I know, but I think it would work. The safety nazis could be mollified by using an additional couple of mechanical or traditional prussics as safety back ups, one on each line.
jomoco
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
Overall ... the new Basic seems a little 'light-duty' for tree work.
In light of the ZigZag failure ... and the recent New Croll failure (also made of thinner stock); Petzl needs to stop catering to the crazies who weigh their shoe strings ... SAD.
I wish I would have bought more of the old style.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's like the Grigri upgrade, the Grigri II is not great, Classic Grigri is much better for tree climbers, a collectors item at this point.
I didn't hear about the new Croll fail, blah.
-AJ
Overall ... the new Basic seems a little 'light-duty' for tree work.
In light of the ZigZag failure ... and the recent New Croll failure (also made of thinner stock); Petzl needs to stop catering to the crazies who weigh their shoe strings ... SAD.
I wish I would have bought more of the old style.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's like the Grigri upgrade, the Grigri II is not great, Classic Grigri is much better for tree climbers, a collectors item at this point.
I didn't hear about the new Croll fail, blah.
-AJ
SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
I've read some indications that this <u>might</u> have been the result of destructive text ... still unclear ... this photo was from and FB post ... lots of rumors floating about ...
caveat emptor
caveat emptor
SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
Another photo:
EDIT: Notice that the ropes appear undamaged yet the Crolls have clearly failed ... not a good sign!!!
EDIT: Notice that the ropes appear undamaged yet the Crolls have clearly failed ... not a good sign!!!
- Location
- Austria, Europe
You can find more Info on that here:
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15112.0
Download the original document for the destruction testing here (its italian):
http://www.sns-cai.it/item/test-sul-crol-petzl-di-recente-produzione
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=15112.0
Download the original document for the destruction testing here (its italian):
http://www.sns-cai.it/item/test-sul-crol-petzl-di-recente-produzione
- Location
- Austin, TX
Does anyone know if petzl is looking into this issue. This isn't very reassuring.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Dorian,
Read through the caving thread that Tree Access linked.
The loads that were applied were way beyond what any climber should ever develop.
The shells on handled ascenders will bend at lower loads and their use is much more accepted as life support.
How are things 'back home'?
Read through the caving thread that Tree Access linked.
The loads that were applied were way beyond what any climber should ever develop.
The shells on handled ascenders will bend at lower loads and their use is much more accepted as life support.
How are things 'back home'?
Are those dang thangs aluminum too?!!!
jomoco
jomoco
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
yeah...aluminum...just like airplanes...can't trust that weak aluminum!
Oh...most car wheels too...sheesh...aluminum scares me...gonna break at any minute.
Geez!
Jomo...get an understanding of the loads that the tool was put under to get it to break. It takes a little metric/standard unit conversions though.
Oh...most car wheels too...sheesh...aluminum scares me...gonna break at any minute.
Geez!
Jomo...get an understanding of the loads that the tool was put under to get it to break. It takes a little metric/standard unit conversions though.
Hey, if you guys have death wish syndrome?
It's a free country!
But mountain climbers and cavers obsess bout their equipment in their spare time. Shining up this gadget, spit polishing and oiling that gizmo.
But the tree industry is brutally hard on everything, day in and day out for months and years. Not everyone is as conscientious about maintaining their gear on a minute by minute basis as you guys are, and they're the ones who will die by adopting your fragile gizmos into their daily tree equipment arsenals Tom.
You know it, I know it, so deal with it for the sake of our industry's public perception and make your disclaimers loud and bright in glowing neon colors before more dummies die trying to be as cool as you guys are.
jomoco
It's a free country!
But mountain climbers and cavers obsess bout their equipment in their spare time. Shining up this gadget, spit polishing and oiling that gizmo.
But the tree industry is brutally hard on everything, day in and day out for months and years. Not everyone is as conscientious about maintaining their gear on a minute by minute basis as you guys are, and they're the ones who will die by adopting your fragile gizmos into their daily tree equipment arsenals Tom.
You know it, I know it, so deal with it for the sake of our industry's public perception and make your disclaimers loud and bright in glowing neon colors before more dummies die trying to be as cool as you guys are.
jomoco
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
J,
Trees are much easier on gear than the granite faces of Yosemite...sheesh!
I never advocate or support fragile gear or poor system choices.
who's responsibility is it if someone misuses gear? Not mine.
Most accidents and deaths in anyone's day is from driving. Should we blame the truck and car makers? What foolishness.
You're way off track J.
Trees are much easier on gear than the granite faces of Yosemite...sheesh!
I never advocate or support fragile gear or poor system choices.
who's responsibility is it if someone misuses gear? Not mine.
Most accidents and deaths in anyone's day is from driving. Should we blame the truck and car makers? What foolishness.
You're way off track J.
Yeah, well I personally think it was sheer luck that Petzl discovered their flawed fragile design error without a fatality Tom. If one of your close friends had died using a ZZ you might not feel that I'm way off base to the degree you think.
jomoco
jomoco
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
J
Where did I absolve Petzl for the ZZ?
Stay on track here...you threw the wet blanket onto aluminum climbing gear. The material has a great track record. Design and engineering are separate issue. Like I say. Look at the decades long use of aluminum for airplanes.
How might I feel if some one died from poor engineering? I know how.
Where did I absolve Petzl for the ZZ?
Stay on track here...you threw the wet blanket onto aluminum climbing gear. The material has a great track record. Design and engineering are separate issue. Like I say. Look at the decades long use of aluminum for airplanes.
How might I feel if some one died from poor engineering? I know how.
Seems like I am on track Tom, talkin bout the tree industry, climbin, life support gear and Petzl.
Whereas you go off track talkin bout airplanes, automotive wheels etc.
Had Petzl engineers known the tree industry's rigors like I do? Well they'd have stayed away from aluminum life support components and stuck with rated steel components that can take the abuse, cross loading, zero gravity shifts etc that are inevitable in this biz.
The logic behind shaving an ounce or two of weight from such a critical piece of life support gear by using aluminum instead of steel is deeply flawed in my opinion, and could be easily proven by substituting the exact aluminum components that failed in both the ZZ and Croll with steel, then run them through the exact same tests and take note of the differences in how much load is exerted before failure occurs.
Your assertion that aluminum components are just fine and dandy for life support gear in this biz are an unnecessary gamble that an old schooler like me can only shake his head and marvel at.
How many times must the fact that people make mistakes in this industry everyday be driven home? That the best way of mitigating these daily mistakes from both an employee and employer point of view, is to design sell and use only equipment and gear that's as rugged and foolproof as we can possibly make it.
Do you think Petzl, Davey Tree, TCIA or their employees want the financial liabilities consequent to fatalities and injuries due to poor design or judgement?
Murphy's law takes no days off, particularly in this industry Tom.
A wise tree biz owner only uses equipment and gear as bullet proof and fool proof as he or she can obtain as a rule.
jomoco,
Whereas you go off track talkin bout airplanes, automotive wheels etc.
Had Petzl engineers known the tree industry's rigors like I do? Well they'd have stayed away from aluminum life support components and stuck with rated steel components that can take the abuse, cross loading, zero gravity shifts etc that are inevitable in this biz.
The logic behind shaving an ounce or two of weight from such a critical piece of life support gear by using aluminum instead of steel is deeply flawed in my opinion, and could be easily proven by substituting the exact aluminum components that failed in both the ZZ and Croll with steel, then run them through the exact same tests and take note of the differences in how much load is exerted before failure occurs.
Your assertion that aluminum components are just fine and dandy for life support gear in this biz are an unnecessary gamble that an old schooler like me can only shake his head and marvel at.
How many times must the fact that people make mistakes in this industry everyday be driven home? That the best way of mitigating these daily mistakes from both an employee and employer point of view, is to design sell and use only equipment and gear that's as rugged and foolproof as we can possibly make it.
Do you think Petzl, Davey Tree, TCIA or their employees want the financial liabilities consequent to fatalities and injuries due to poor design or judgement?
Murphy's law takes no days off, particularly in this industry Tom.
A wise tree biz owner only uses equipment and gear as bullet proof and fool proof as he or she can obtain as a rule.
jomoco,
- Location
- Austin, TX
[ QUOTE ]
Dorian,
Read through the caving thread that Tree Access linked.
The loads that were applied were way beyond what any climber should ever develop.
The shells on handled ascenders will bend at lower loads and their use is much more accepted as life support.
How are things 'back home'?
[/ QUOTE ]
I did read it and now I see why they might not test it further.
I really like the new Croll. I don't care much about weight but I did like the slimmer design compared to the old one. I found that the wide lobes would often get caught in the sequoia rings. Of course I also care that it stays in one piece and will make a habit of checking it daily.
Tom, the weather here has been crazy. We have had the best spring since I moved here. A couple of nights ago it was in the mid 40s, crazy stuff.
Dorian,
Read through the caving thread that Tree Access linked.
The loads that were applied were way beyond what any climber should ever develop.
The shells on handled ascenders will bend at lower loads and their use is much more accepted as life support.
How are things 'back home'?
[/ QUOTE ]
I did read it and now I see why they might not test it further.
I really like the new Croll. I don't care much about weight but I did like the slimmer design compared to the old one. I found that the wide lobes would often get caught in the sequoia rings. Of course I also care that it stays in one piece and will make a habit of checking it daily.
Tom, the weather here has been crazy. We have had the best spring since I moved here. A couple of nights ago it was in the mid 40s, crazy stuff.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
J
You might get away with playing the old school card with most people. Not me though. My climbing career started in about '73 when I was 19. I've done a bit of rock and ice climbing along with mountaineering too. Treework for my whole life. The only gear that I've broken was my fault and never resulted in injury.
You're right, Petzl missed the mark with the ZZ but I still trust them. More than I do Kong. My Kong mistrust started years before the ring debacle too. All of this is from bad engineering not bad materials.
There's no reason to even discuss this with you anyway. You're not likely to use ascenders are you?
You might get away with playing the old school card with most people. Not me though. My climbing career started in about '73 when I was 19. I've done a bit of rock and ice climbing along with mountaineering too. Treework for my whole life. The only gear that I've broken was my fault and never resulted in injury.
You're right, Petzl missed the mark with the ZZ but I still trust them. More than I do Kong. My Kong mistrust started years before the ring debacle too. All of this is from bad engineering not bad materials.
There's no reason to even discuss this with you anyway. You're not likely to use ascenders are you?
No Tom, I'm not. At least not for work.
jomoco
jomoco
