Looking for tricks to use pulling rigging lines through tight unions.

D

dmonn

Branched out member
Location
Port Washington Wisconsin
I am doing a lot of work on dead ash trees now, and often have trouble pulling my rigging line through a tight union using my throwline. No matter how I tie it to my throwline, the rigging line gets hung up. I then spend a stupid amount of time trying to coax it over the union. I've tried jiggling it, throwing a slack loop, twisting the bull rope to move the attachment point around, yanking super hard when it's almost at the union and quickly slacking it before it gets there, swearing a lot, changing how I hold my jaw--all I can think of.

I sometimes have success by first pulling 1/4 inch double braid over the union, then followed by 3/8, and finally my 5/8 bull rope. That seems like a lot of screwing around, and even that isn't a sure thing. I'm looking for more suggestions.
 
There are a few different ways to build a tapered gizmo to help thread the rope. I've made them using pop bottles.

To use it you'd cut off the bottom of the pop bottle then thread the throwline through the top. Tie off the rope using a pile hitch down a few inches from the end. Then tie a half hitch around the throwline. Finish by snugging up a few marls to the tail of the rope. Pull the knotted end into the pop bottle then screw the cap down with the throwline captured in the threads.

A heavier duty one could be made using plastic plumbing pieces. A hot air gun softens the plastic so you could create a long tapered end.

Another strategy I've used is to set a second throwline above the TIP. Drop the second down to the ground and secure the pull rope to it. The second throwline acts as a lift to get the big rope up and over the v-union.

In order to get the heavy rope to drop down the other side I made up a large throw bag using a big New Tribe bag and added the lead shot from a couple of broken bags. This mondo bag is named Titan!
 
I've encountered difficult narrow unions before that gave me fits. Your post gave me idea inspired by a method used in rescue to get a packaged patient in a vertical lift hauled over a handrail with no high point anchor.

If you can get 2 throwlines set (without getting them hopelessly tangled) and attach a stick on the end of the rope, you could try what I mocked up here. The 2x2 with the notched end represents the tight union.
20220308_135457.jpg
20220308_135533.jpg
Pull the orange line until it raises the rope as high as possible, which raises the stick well above the union.
20220308_135635.jpg
Then pull the yellow line to tilt the stick over.
20220308_135731.jpg
As the stick flips downward, the rope hopefully clears the union and can be pulled on down. May work best to not get the stick too high before pulling the yellow line to maximize the flipping action.

Might even be worth trying without the stick. Just tip tie one throw line on the rope with the other line a couple of feet from the end. Haul the rope up with the line attached away from the end, then maybe the tip tied line can pull the end of the rope through.

That may help get the end of the rope through, but may not help with those unions that behave like a jam cleat.
 
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If I think its going to be tough pull, I'll leave the throw bag on the line. I'll put my rigging line, or climb line for that matter, through the ring of the throw bag and just tie an overhand knot. The over hand knot jams on the ring. I do not tie it to the ring. I'll pull the throw line until the bag, with the end of the main line, are just below the union I want to get through. I'll let the bag hang about 6" below the union and the give a quick, fairly long tug on the throwline. This generally get the throw bag to launch straight up above the union, then get jerked over it, taking the end of the main with it. So in effect, rather than "rolling over/through the union", the line will be launch above it for a brief moment before it comes down the other side. I can usually tell if this is a viable solution based on how hard it is to pull the throwline back up and also how freely the throw bag comes back down after my initial throwline toss.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
There are a few different ways to build a tapered gizmo to help thread the rope. I've made them using pop bottles.

To use it you'd cut off the bottom of the pop bottle then thread the throwline through the top. Tie off the rope using a pile hitch down a few inches from the end. Then tie a half hitch around the throwline. Finish by snugging up a few marls to the tail of the rope. Pull the knotted end into the pop bottle then screw the cap down with the throwline captured in the threads.

A heavier duty one could be made using plastic plumbing pieces. A hot air gun softens the plastic so you could create a long tapered end.

Another strategy I've used is to set a second throwline above the TIP. Drop the second down to the ground and secure the pull rope to it. The second throwline acts as a lift to get the big rope up and over the v-union.

In order to get the heavy rope to drop down the other side I made up a large throw bag using a big New Tribe bag and added the lead shot from a couple of broken bags. This mondo bag is named Titan!
Click to expand...
Using a second higher tip is what I've done to get a stuck throwbag unstuck. Love it, as well as the other suggestions. I'm thinking some heat gun action on flexible plastic tubing could be perfect when there's no higher TIP available.

Thanks guys.
 
Phil said:
If I think its going to be tough pull, I'll leave the throw bag on the line. I'll put my rigging line, or climb line for that matter, through the ring of the throw bag and just tie an overhand knot. The over hand knot jams on the ring. I do not tie it to the ring. I'll pull the throw line until the bag, with the end of the main line, are just below the union I want to get through. I'll let the bag hang about 6" below the union and the give a quick, fairly long tug on the throwline. This generally get the throw bag to launch straight up above the union, then get jerked over it, taking the end of the main with it. So in effect, rather than "rolling over/through the union", the line will be launch above it for a brief moment before it comes down the other side. I can usually tell if this is a viable solution based on how hard it is to pull the throwline back up and also how freely the throw bag comes back down after my initial throwline toss.
Click to expand...
I do this as well, and find that it is reasonably successful. Alternatively, on Ash, you may be able to shoot a little higher to a smaller branch over the desired tying point, pull the rope up over the little branch, and grab both ends and yank. That will break the small branch and drop your rope right into the crotch where you want it to end up.
 
Reach said:
I do this as well, and find that it is reasonably successful. Alternatively, on Ash, you may be able to shoot a little higher to a smaller branch over the desired tying point, pull the rope up over the little branch, and grab both ends and yank. That will break the small branch and drop your rope right into the crotch where you want it to end up.
Click to expand...
Second this, especially for ash.
 
Something else I'm going to try. For those ropes that have a core is to remove the core for the first foot or so. Tie the throwline to the skinnier, more flexible part of the rope (without the core). That should make it easier to pull the beginning of the bigger rope through the union. If the end of the removed core is tapered, maybe it'll be a nice smooth transition and pull right through. Maybe. Hoping. It's pretty easy to do for 16 strand or double braid--not so easy on my fully braided bull rope! But I might even be able to taper the full braid to some extent.
 
use 1/2" true blue on ash and you shouldn't have too much trouble... 5/8" is really not needed

Te crotched on ash aren't that tight. Black locust and shagbark hickory can be problematic, but rarely ash. If you are having problems, think about the bigger picture. Do you really need 5/8" to rig ash?

These should give you some confidence in true blue: (these are from the same video qued up to different rigging scenes)


 
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If a union is really narrow, such that the rope can't seat all the way down into it, pulling from the ground likely just wedges the rope in tighter and makes pulling it through nearly impossible.
 
surveyor said:
What about Thomas's Rope Knight? I don't know if it will fit rigging line however.

Click to expand...
it will fit up to 3/4" mb a bit more.
for tight forks that have very lil chance to splay open, I will just rethrow or pull it over with the throw line or bump it over with the RK tied to the rope and if its really difficult add a RopeShield to the bump over.
#1 Just shoot high and over your intended target so when you are pulling rope you may get lucky enough the rope will fall into a crotch as the tips break.
#2 is climb and push a RopeKnight into your preferred crotch
#3 is shoot thru the crown, pull rope thru and then shoot again from the other side to create a loop capturing the tree
I only use dyneema 12 strand 1/2" for pulling, it is slippy
 
I’ll tie the throw line about 16” from the end of the rigging line. Once the rigging line is just shy of the crotch I’ll give a quick yank and get the rigging line to flip up and over the crotch. It works and no extra gear needed.
 
I eyeball cloned the front cone of the rope knight just to protect the rope eye from abrasion pulling it through crotches. Apologies, Thomas. What I have found is that despite my best efforts at an optimal cone taper, a tight crotch will stop my cone same as a rope. It will halt and than pivot the rope upwards as the cone tip is pulled downwards by the throw line. My best tool is the anti-gravity e.g. get the rope flying up so quickly right up to the crotch that you can stop pulling right when it gets to the going-over point and inertia carries it over without the weight of the rope creating contact force into the crotch. I like the idea of enhancing this with flipping a throw bag in an arc up over the crotch. :)

Been using the cone protector for about 10 years.

Wedged crotch - can you say linden tree?
 
I've always wanted to try something like a wire pulling sock for pulling wire through conduit... I've seen this one talked about before with decent success. I've had decent enough luck using a 1/4 intermediate sized rope that also saves your fingers when pulling, that I've never bothered ordering one.

The other major helpful point, is if you're aiming for a tight crotch, aim to get the throwline through some small branching directly above it. That way when you pull your rigging (or climbing) line through and tighten it up you can usually break the smaller branches off and drop right into the crotch you want. (not recommended on delicate prunes, but it is pretty functional on removals or trees you're going to cut suckers off anyways)
 
what's a sucker?

Oh yah you must be talking about all the people that believed vaccines were going to get us back to normal....

Epicormic shoots on the other hand have some value to the tree or they wouldn't be there. That's the way God made things
 
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