Looking for the ideal rope.

[Willber]

Hi, I'm new to this forum, signed minutes ago. I'm looking for some help in finding a rope that has a minimum of 32 (preferably 48 strand) braid strands with a minimum of 3 carrier strands (in 32 strand), that has a very tight cover braid. Similar to this Beal Access rope:

BEAL ACCESS 11MM WITH UNICORE

The standard in access ropes for maximum security in all situations. The Access with UniCore brings a new level of security to your work or rescue operations. UniCore process bonds the sheath and core without affecting the ropes suppleness or handling. Sheath slippage is virtually eliminated...

libertymountain.com

The two problems I have with rope is it's too stretchy and and too small diameter. I know this is a rock climbing rope, but it's the only rope I have found that has a high strand/carrier count, yet also stays very round with high side pressure, and is moderately stretchy.
I recently purchased the Yale Scandere, which flattens severely, and is too stretchy, which I couldn't fully know until I used it.

In lieu of finding the rope I'm looking for, I'm thinking of petitioning a local rope manufacturer to make this ideal rope: 12mm, 48 strand very tight nylon cover braid (nylon is abrasion resistant enough, but nylon is more porous than polyester which would increase the grip), with a balance of nylon and and polyester core, (to get the ideal bulk with less weight, but still keeping it a static rope).

 

[Reach]

What are your reasons for being so selective? There are probably hundreds of ropes on the market already, and I’m sure there are several that will meet your needs.

 

[islandarb]

Just get 12mm HTP. It should rough them hands up nicely. Static as rasshole and firm. If you flatten it you are indeed 500lbs. Thank me later. I have many other offerings but will start at that. Not sure why 32 or 48 strand necessary. 24 is my jam 11.7 is big enough. Practically no stretch.

 

[islandarb]

Confetti 2.0 Yale 11.7. Like mofo skittles.

 

[Dan Cobb]

In lieu of finding the rope I'm looking for, I'm thinking of petitioning a local rope manufacturer to make this ideal rope:

Welcome to the Buzz!

FWIW, I think substituting "paying" for "petitioning" is more realistic, but there's no harm in reaching out to the manufacturer.

 

[Crimsonking]

@islandarb nailed it on all counts.

 

[Willber]

What are your reasons for being so selective? There are probably hundreds of ropes on the market already, and I’m sure there are several that will meet your needs.

I'm being very selective because I've found that this Beal rope to be the only rope out of, the Scandere, Blue Moon, Edelrid Direction Up, Sterling HTP 1/2, and a few others, that will never flatten. Flattening is bad because it causes loss of hand grip, and will slip in the ZigZag, and will not easily self-tend in the ZigZag. I only climb with my gloved hands, I don't like to use ascenders, because I do very through extensive crown pruning, that would be made cumbersome and more weighty with ascenders.
The Yale XTC stays rounder than others (not as round as the Beal), I find the high cross-section of high braid count, creates better grip than the more "nobbyness" of a lower strand count like 16strand. Because, with higher braid count the intersection of the strand are more lateral than a lower strand count, creating more of a perpendicular placement of plastic filaments.

Well, it seems hard to find such a rope, I'm just hoping someone here might refer such a rope.

 

[Willber]

Just get 12mm HTP. It should rough them hands up nicely. Static as rasshole and firm. If you flatten it you are indeed 500lbs. Thank me later. I have many other offerings but will start at that. Not sure why 32 or 48 strand necessary. 24 is my jam 11.7 is big enough. Practically no stretch.

The Sterling HTP 1/2" flattens quite severely as, not as bad as the Scandere. I use a leather sleeve for my DRT travel, and with my weight of 160lbs the Scandere flattens very noticeably especially when I get near the attachment point, but also flattens in my ZigZag, causing it to creep, because when the Scandere flattens in the ZigZag it essentially becomes a small diameter rope. Yes, 11.7 would be within the desired diameter. One rope that I like because it is an ok diameter, therefore self tends quite well in the ZigZag, very static, and only flattens minimally, is the TowerLine(12mm) by AllGear, which I heard is made by Atlantic Braids. It's just that the TowerLine is only a 32 braid without additional carrier strands.
I prefer not to use ascenders, it makes difficult canopy pruning more cumbersome and is additional weight.

 

[Willber]

Welcome to the Buzz!

FWIW, I think substituting "paying" for "petitioning" is more realistic, but there's no harm in reaching out to the manufacturer.

Thanks, for the Welcome! Yes, and I also used the word petition, because it implies to also "implore" someone to do something. And, hopefully if one of the manufacturer doesn't what to do it, I'll just tell them, "ok I'll have your competition make this ideal rope, and it may become a hit."

 

[Chris Schultz]

I prefer not to use ascenders, it makes difficult canopy pruning more cumbersome and is additional weight.

Compared to what?: Body thrusting, or climbing branches? How do you do your initial canopy access? Between my foot ascender and my hand ascender the weight is negligible, and I don’t even notice their presence half the time.

 

[Jehinten]

The Sterling HTP 1/2" flattens quite severely as, not as bad as the Scandere. I use a leather sleeve for my DRT travel, and with my weight of 160lbs the Scandere flattens very noticeably especially when I get near the attachment point, but also flattens in my ZigZag, causing it to creep, because when the Scandere flattens in the ZigZag it essentially becomes a small diameter rope. Yes, 11.7 would be within the desired diameter. One rope that I like because it is an ok diameter, therefore self tends quite well in the ZigZag, very static, and only flattens minimally, is the TowerLine(12mm) by AllGear, which I heard is made by Atlantic Braids. It's just that the TowerLine is only a 32 braid without additional carrier strands.
I prefer not to use ascenders, it makes difficult canopy pruning more cumbersome and is additional weight.

I can't offer a rope that meets your specs but I use tachyon with my zigzag. After the first 10' or so it self tends and I don't notice it flattening. Stretch isn't bad in doubled rope, it's much worse in a basal tied SRS.

As for the zigzag creeping, there's been a recent recall due to that issue. Perhaps it's the device and not the rope?

 

[Reach]

I’ve been climbing with AllGear Blue Craze or Cherry Bomb for years, never noticed an issue with it on the ZigZag, and never had trouble with grip with or without gloves.

A side issue on strand count if you’re climbing DdRT/MRS, the higher the strand count, the less durable the cover and the more frequently you’ll have to replace it.

And good luck imploring a rope manufacturer to make you a custom rope, I know a gear supply company who has a rope made custom for themselves, they had to commit to purchasing a monumental amount of rope for the manufacturer to be willing to make it.

 

[islandarb]

Unfortunately rope companies only develop rope for folk willing to purchase huge amounts of said rope. It is way too costly to setup. That Yale 11.7 poly/poly 24 strand Confetti 2.0 I posted is one such rope. Jamie Goddard from Rope Guru who used to be with Yale got it made but he has numerous preorders. That rope does not flatten really. Tough as nails. Not using ascenders is like going back to 2011 for me. To each their own. I burn very little energy ascending this way plus I can get in the crown pretty quick. The weight is negligible.

 

[Tuebor]

I suspect something else is going on here. At 160 lbs, DdRT on a ZigZag and complaining about flattening and slippage to the point you won't use an ascender (some can be less than 5 ozs) and want to solve the issue by way of strand count?

 

[islandarb]

I suspect something else is going on here. At 160 lbs, DdRT on a ZigZag and complaining about flattening and slippage to the point you won't use an ascender (some can be less than 5 ozs) and want to solve the issue by way of strand count?

I agree. Sounds pretty odd. Need clarification. I am 174. None of my 11.7s ( my staple ) and I own a lot, flatten to any degree either in a wrench or runner.

 

[ATH]

I don't use the zigzag much, but have had no problem with creeping or flattening with Bluemoon, Tachyon or Imori. Imori is probably the easiest of those to grab. Like @Jehinten said, there is a recall for zigzag so check on that. Mine falls within the serial #s listed, but has had no slippage. I weigh 200, my helper who uses it is probably closer to 225...

Thread on the recall:

Petzl ZigZag/Zillon recall

Safety information - Cases of slippage with ZIGZAG / ZIGZAG PLUS / ZILLON Check your gear.

www.treebuzz.com

 

[RopeShield]

1st platinum teufelberger
2nd gleistien lizard
3rd nothing else is close in my opinion, mushy, flattens etc
the platinum that i use the 10.5 both the nylon and the poly types work well in ART products, Taz lov, brief try on akimbo and rrpro worked well also.
great in the hand, longest lived ropes i've ever owned, well worth the money in every respect.
Firmer, lighter, stronger, safer
I am quite convinced the clutches and wear on my devices are far less due to the solid nature and tight weave of the Teufelberger Platinum plus NO milking
It's not for everybody, grip it in the knuckle not the palm, and use of handled ascender for any long travel up to save wear and tear on joints.
I guess its has lower coeffecient of friction, redirects pull out easily tailing and pulling the belly out etc is easier.
My work is mostly crown reduction on over extending limbs and leads in hardwoods and occasionally large Norway spruce and white pines.

 

[islandarb]

Thomas that rope has huge amounts of stretch which equates to bounce. Had both sizes, not a fan but again rope is personal. It is tough I agree. Love it as a lanyard.

 

[RopeShield]

The nylon poly stretches more than the all poly. Need some stretch in case of failure. I find it to be a bit bouncy only on the 1st 15 to 20ft of a 50 plus ascent.
If you remember a few yrs ago I had two failures. a bridge in combo with a limb i was lanyard-ed into. Softer drop for slightly dislocated middle finger tip. thank god for back ups.
I would love to climb on something more static but the nature of trees here/hidden ice storm damage being the big one is something we need to be always prepared for.

 

[islandarb]

The nylon poly stretches more than the all poly. Need some stretch in case of failure. I find it to be a bit bouncy only on the 1st 15 to 20ft of a 50 plus ascent.
If you remember a few yrs ago I had two failures. a bridge in combo with a limb i was lanyard-ed into. Softer drop for slightly dislocated middle finger tip. thank god for back ups.
I would love to climb on something more static but the nature of trees here/hidden ice storm damage being the big one is something we need to be always prepared for.

I hear ya. Our environs dictate our choices of gear and tools.