Location of most chainsaw injuries while climbing?
- Thread starter NewMainer
- Start date
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
I wonder how many people have sustained leg injuries in the tree, as a percent of chainsaw injuries. The opportunity is soooo much lower than upper body injuries.
Those French guys with the pine takedown video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QspZJoBRBXU&playnext=1&list=PL5551B1281E9DB218&index=2 had some type of forearm protection. I imagine that if that is somewhat chainsaw protective, they would be much more worthwhile than chainsaw pants in the tree.
I have a chainbrake, throttle interlock, and "off" switch that keeps my legs pretty safe in the tree, and good work positioning.
Those French guys with the pine takedown video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QspZJoBRBXU&playnext=1&list=PL5551B1281E9DB218&index=2 had some type of forearm protection. I imagine that if that is somewhat chainsaw protective, they would be much more worthwhile than chainsaw pants in the tree.
I have a chainbrake, throttle interlock, and "off" switch that keeps my legs pretty safe in the tree, and good work positioning.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Anyone have John Ball's contact info? Maybe he could compile some stats. I wear gladiators in the tree. If chainsaw gloves also had a tackier palm and fingers (like nitril) I'd be more likely to wear them. There are chainsaw shirts that may also be worth looking into.
When a worker conscientiously uses safe work practices and protective gear then injuries both acute and chronic are reduced. Unfortunately, we don't see much in the way of published information and statistics on injuries and the logic behind the protective measures being implemented.
I've been inside the Ontario WCB rehabilitation hospital and have seen the range of injuries suffered in the workplace. Frankly many were caused by short cuts taken to serve "production". They cost us big time. Lost productivity, downtime, rehabilitation, etc.... Your body, your injury, my insurance premiums....
When a worker conscientiously uses safe work practices and protective gear then injuries both acute and chronic are reduced. Unfortunately, we don't see much in the way of published information and statistics on injuries and the logic behind the protective measures being implemented.
I've been inside the Ontario WCB rehabilitation hospital and have seen the range of injuries suffered in the workplace. Frankly many were caused by short cuts taken to serve "production". They cost us big time. Lost productivity, downtime, rehabilitation, etc.... Your body, your injury, my insurance premiums....
- Location
- North of Seattle
"They cost us big time. Lost productivity, downtime, rehabilitation, etc.... Your body, your injury, my insurance premiums...."
I agree. Last year, Labor & Industries called me in and wanted to know if we were loggers. My tree service pays like $4 per hour, per employee. Loggers are like $11 hr.
So, the state wants to up my insurance rates, say that many 'logging' injuries are costing them money. I explained that loggers are paid by the piece, and we are (paid by hour) very carefull professionals that cut trees slowly next to houses.
I agree. Last year, Labor & Industries called me in and wanted to know if we were loggers. My tree service pays like $4 per hour, per employee. Loggers are like $11 hr.
So, the state wants to up my insurance rates, say that many 'logging' injuries are costing them money. I explained that loggers are paid by the piece, and we are (paid by hour) very carefull professionals that cut trees slowly next to houses.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
That was a battle fought long ago in Ontario. Saved Treeco's a bundle.
- Location
- Western Montana, USA
We could all just become communists and have everything shoved down our throats so we don't have to make decisions for ourselves anymore
I fell timber for thirteen years...worked with the best of the best, and the only thing that made my job more dangerous was some by the book, government osha guy telling me how to do it, because a bunch of paper pushing pansies decided that it was a dangerous job. If you guys want to wear all that gear in the tree, fine, do it. If you want to ALWAYS run your wittle twee saw with two hands, good for you. Just don't try to tell me how to do my job, and we will be good. Climbing trees and running a powersaw while doing it, is a blast, and can be an adrenaline rush, but then the tree police come along and there goes the fun, and the reason I am a tree climber in the first place.
I fell timber for thirteen years...worked with the best of the best, and the only thing that made my job more dangerous was some by the book, government osha guy telling me how to do it, because a bunch of paper pushing pansies decided that it was a dangerous job. If you guys want to wear all that gear in the tree, fine, do it. If you want to ALWAYS run your wittle twee saw with two hands, good for you. Just don't try to tell me how to do my job, and we will be good. Climbing trees and running a powersaw while doing it, is a blast, and can be an adrenaline rush, but then the tree police come along and there goes the fun, and the reason I am a tree climber in the first place.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
I have found that doing quality tree work involves me getting into all kinds of positions. Often making a cut very near to wear I have placed my legs, so that I can make a good cut, under control. The pants go on at the beginning of the day and come off at the end, so when I am on the ground there is no wondering where are the chaps, and no forgetting to wear them, or no justifying that its only a couple of cuts. There are cut protective upper body garments available as well, and there have been times that I wear the cut protective shirt.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
Hey Cody, Why not just work naked? That ought to up the fun factor?
- Location
- Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
http://www.jomaccanada.com/eng/product/cut/glove47.html
Good gloves, they last pretty good to. I should try cutting
them with the chain saw. See how tough they really are.
Good gloves, they last pretty good to. I should try cutting
them with the chain saw. See how tough they really are.
- Location
- Ft Thomas, KY/ Cincinnati
[ QUOTE ]
I have heard that hand injuries are the most common chainsaw cut accident. I can't say whether this is aloft or on the ground though. What it means to me is a large number of accidents are from one-handing since you absolutley cannot get a cut if you are holding the saw with both hands.
[/ QUOTE ]
just like with using any kind of power tools or equipment, it's usually your "helping hand" that gets bitten. When you're hyper-focused on the work, it's too easy to forget about the side that isn't controlling the tool you're using. My left hand and forearm have more scars from cuts and burns from different tools... I have had a little run in with a table saw, but after seeing that pic Zeb posted I'm glad I've never tangled w/ a chain saw. Horrible. If I ever do use one, I will don any available protective gear I can find.
No one will have to tell me twice.
I have heard that hand injuries are the most common chainsaw cut accident. I can't say whether this is aloft or on the ground though. What it means to me is a large number of accidents are from one-handing since you absolutley cannot get a cut if you are holding the saw with both hands.
[/ QUOTE ]
just like with using any kind of power tools or equipment, it's usually your "helping hand" that gets bitten. When you're hyper-focused on the work, it's too easy to forget about the side that isn't controlling the tool you're using. My left hand and forearm have more scars from cuts and burns from different tools... I have had a little run in with a table saw, but after seeing that pic Zeb posted I'm glad I've never tangled w/ a chain saw. Horrible. If I ever do use one, I will don any available protective gear I can find.
No one will have to tell me twice.
- Location
- Midland,Ontario,Canada
Its a pair of fricken pants in the tree not your hockey gear.Honestly how far away till the regulations mandate it(most other countries require them) why not find a pair you like and get used to wearing them.Who cares about stats it only takes one misplaced cut and possibly lights out.Not trying to be an ahole on the subject just preaching safety for all you buzzers.
Re: Location of most chainsaw injuries while climb
I can think one of the main reasons to wear chainsaw pants is the fact that the biggest artery in the human body runs right through your legs. Chainsaw pants aren't there to stop the chain from cutting into you, but it will stop the chain before it rips through enough flesh to get to your artery (hopefully). They just give you time to react. You cut that artery, you can bleed out in under a minute no problem. But hey, walking 50km both ways to school, in 6ft of snow, with an 80lb bag of potatoes got us this far, right?
I can think one of the main reasons to wear chainsaw pants is the fact that the biggest artery in the human body runs right through your legs. Chainsaw pants aren't there to stop the chain from cutting into you, but it will stop the chain before it rips through enough flesh to get to your artery (hopefully). They just give you time to react. You cut that artery, you can bleed out in under a minute no problem. But hey, walking 50km both ways to school, in 6ft of snow, with an 80lb bag of potatoes got us this far, right?
- Location
- Western Montana, USA
[ QUOTE ]
Hey Cody, Why not just work naked? That ought to up the fun factor?
[/ QUOTE ] It would sure be a lot funner than climbing with all the armor you are preaching about. Chainsaw shirts and gloves? Really? Maybe you need it because you are too weak to one hand a climb saw?. As far as myself...a chainsaw is just an extension of my arm...have been running them since I was 9 years old, and I know what I can do with them
Hey Cody, Why not just work naked? That ought to up the fun factor?
[/ QUOTE ] It would sure be a lot funner than climbing with all the armor you are preaching about. Chainsaw shirts and gloves? Really? Maybe you need it because you are too weak to one hand a climb saw?. As far as myself...a chainsaw is just an extension of my arm...have been running them since I was 9 years old, and I know what I can do with them
- Location
- Columbus Ohio
MACHOMAN!!!!!!!
Its always the overconfident guys that end up falling into the "not if, but when category"
Its always the overconfident guys that end up falling into the "not if, but when category"
"Good gloves, they last pretty good to."
That would be 'too' porc. Douche.
That would be 'too' porc. Douche.
[ QUOTE ]
.... Often making a cut very near to wear I have placed my legs, so that I can make a good cut, under control...
[/ QUOTE ]
Zeb, you no doubt consider yourself a safe and conscientious worker. But the above statement is exactly why just mandating safety gear falls so short of true protection. Make no mistake I am not against PPEs but against their misuse and the idiotic belief that if we mandate their use, workers will be safe.
Safety starts with thought. That thought is put to use in movements over and over until their use becomes second nature. These become safe work habits.
PPEs should not be a condition of that movement. Wearing a hard hat does not allow you to enter a drop zone with immunity, wearing a safety vest does not allow you to ignore traffic and wearing chainsaw protective clothing was never intended to replace good judgment. If your cutting movements, whether it be with chainsaws or hand saws, may come in contact with you or your climbing equipment, they eventually will. This is a given.
PPEs need to be regarded as a last line of defence, not as an active invincibility shield.
Dave
.... Often making a cut very near to wear I have placed my legs, so that I can make a good cut, under control...
[/ QUOTE ]
Zeb, you no doubt consider yourself a safe and conscientious worker. But the above statement is exactly why just mandating safety gear falls so short of true protection. Make no mistake I am not against PPEs but against their misuse and the idiotic belief that if we mandate their use, workers will be safe.
Safety starts with thought. That thought is put to use in movements over and over until their use becomes second nature. These become safe work habits.
PPEs should not be a condition of that movement. Wearing a hard hat does not allow you to enter a drop zone with immunity, wearing a safety vest does not allow you to ignore traffic and wearing chainsaw protective clothing was never intended to replace good judgment. If your cutting movements, whether it be with chainsaws or hand saws, may come in contact with you or your climbing equipment, they eventually will. This is a given.
PPEs need to be regarded as a last line of defence, not as an active invincibility shield.
Dave
- Location
- south carolina
That's at least rational reasoning. The ol, because I can pick it up with one hand I should use it with one hand, doesn't really fly. I'm pretty much on the fence on this. Mindfulness, as DSMc spoke of is definetly the key. I for one, am not infinetly mindful, hence the chaps or two hands thing. I don't wear chaps in the air and I don't always use two hands...I try, but again I'm not always mindful.
Pretty mindful however, of how lame my excuse is. We should respect what we do and how quickly we can die doing it. Tarzanstree, I feel you as well, as long as you own your own company are entitled to cut your arm of if that is your desire. 20, 30yr. veterans die every year (cliche but true). I suppose there is a bit of romance surrounding a death like that. But as Riggs has so gracefully taught all of us, "dyin ain't much of a livin".
If we like it or not, we all are a big disfunctinoal family of arbonuts. If you die today, I pay for it tomorrow when the government comes through the back door. Or if I die, same deal. So really, excercising our freedom with recklessness is what is taking our freedom, its not Zeb or mandated chaps.
Pretty mindful however, of how lame my excuse is. We should respect what we do and how quickly we can die doing it. Tarzanstree, I feel you as well, as long as you own your own company are entitled to cut your arm of if that is your desire. 20, 30yr. veterans die every year (cliche but true). I suppose there is a bit of romance surrounding a death like that. But as Riggs has so gracefully taught all of us, "dyin ain't much of a livin".
If we like it or not, we all are a big disfunctinoal family of arbonuts. If you die today, I pay for it tomorrow when the government comes through the back door. Or if I die, same deal. So really, excercising our freedom with recklessness is what is taking our freedom, its not Zeb or mandated chaps.
- Location
- Columbus Ohio
Truly beautiful posting, Dave and Jimmy. Silken safety, vs. 04 steel wool. I dig it big time. Let tarzan cut his hand of someday. As long as the safeties keep stayin safe we have all done our job spreading the word.
I don't have pups of my own yet, but when I do you better believe dads not gonna come home with some BS chainsaw injury that could have been prevented by PPE.
ORRR!!!!!! maybe I should have spent the money for a gym membership to get my Popeye forearms on, and be strong enough to one hand some 660's.
I don't have pups of my own yet, but when I do you better believe dads not gonna come home with some BS chainsaw injury that could have been prevented by PPE.
ORRR!!!!!! maybe I should have spent the money for a gym membership to get my Popeye forearms on, and be strong enough to one hand some 660's.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
.... Often making a cut very near to wear I have placed my legs, so that I can make a good cut, under control...
Zeb, you no doubt consider yourself a safe and conscientious worker. But the above statement is exactly why just mandating safety gear falls so short of true protection. Make no mistake I am not against PPEs but against their misuse and the idiotic belief that if we mandate their use, workers will be safe.
Safety starts with thought. That thought is put to use in movements over and over until their use becomes second nature. These become safe work habits.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, Dave. Point is, while I endeavor to have good positioning at all times, to keep the saw and myself under control, there are times, perhaps more often doing pruning work, where the positioning to make a cut does involve part of the body closer to the chain then I ever would on the ground. Seems like the reason we wear PPE is for the occasion that something goes wrong. PPE, including my awesome Pfanner Gladiators are part of my uniform at work. They are always there, it would just feel wrong if I forgot them. I believe that those of us that fully embrace the use of PPE, follow ANSI SHALLs and SHOULDs are better, more efficient climbers. Can I take down a fir as fast as some reckless one arm saw user, climbing with flipline and spurs only? No way. These guys are extremely skilled, but are operating at the edge of disaster. One tree guy I know runs his 020 with a 20" bar and no chain brake so as to get a wee bit more wood before needing the bigger saw. He is way fast. But I don't want to/feel the need to keep up with him. Safer, Easier, more Efficient works for me. My shoulders will last longer, my back wont hurt, my knees and hips wont be destroyed from years of spur work. And if/when the length of time working accident free catches up with the statistical odds of an accident happening, my wearing of PPE, staying tied in twice, keeping both hands on the saw, etc. means that my odds of that accident being in the category of near miss, rather than injury or fatality, go waayy up.
In the mean time yahoos that feel the need to prove their manhood by one arming the saw and sportin' a ball cap instead of a helmet, are keeping my workers comp rates very high. In truth, their "freedom" costs me.
Quote:
.... Often making a cut very near to wear I have placed my legs, so that I can make a good cut, under control...
Zeb, you no doubt consider yourself a safe and conscientious worker. But the above statement is exactly why just mandating safety gear falls so short of true protection. Make no mistake I am not against PPEs but against their misuse and the idiotic belief that if we mandate their use, workers will be safe.
Safety starts with thought. That thought is put to use in movements over and over until their use becomes second nature. These become safe work habits.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, Dave. Point is, while I endeavor to have good positioning at all times, to keep the saw and myself under control, there are times, perhaps more often doing pruning work, where the positioning to make a cut does involve part of the body closer to the chain then I ever would on the ground. Seems like the reason we wear PPE is for the occasion that something goes wrong. PPE, including my awesome Pfanner Gladiators are part of my uniform at work. They are always there, it would just feel wrong if I forgot them. I believe that those of us that fully embrace the use of PPE, follow ANSI SHALLs and SHOULDs are better, more efficient climbers. Can I take down a fir as fast as some reckless one arm saw user, climbing with flipline and spurs only? No way. These guys are extremely skilled, but are operating at the edge of disaster. One tree guy I know runs his 020 with a 20" bar and no chain brake so as to get a wee bit more wood before needing the bigger saw. He is way fast. But I don't want to/feel the need to keep up with him. Safer, Easier, more Efficient works for me. My shoulders will last longer, my back wont hurt, my knees and hips wont be destroyed from years of spur work. And if/when the length of time working accident free catches up with the statistical odds of an accident happening, my wearing of PPE, staying tied in twice, keeping both hands on the saw, etc. means that my odds of that accident being in the category of near miss, rather than injury or fatality, go waayy up.
In the mean time yahoos that feel the need to prove their manhood by one arming the saw and sportin' a ball cap instead of a helmet, are keeping my workers comp rates very high. In truth, their "freedom" costs me.
T
thood
Guest
This industry is very diverse and will always be very safety minded which from this thread sounds like most of the choir. However I have many friends very great climbers less safety minded. There is a reason many of us become certified and go through training programs, this divides climbing arborist and tree climbers in my book. I have seen a few friends including myself trade the ball cap for a hard hat and pants for chainsaw protective pants. No one cares more about ME than ME. Ultimately any safety rule is a rule, they can be followed or broken. I had rules growing up, if my mom said "it's for your safety" I could either listen and be safe or chose not to and get hurt or live on the edge. Safety has to start individually first. Is working in a tree a blast sure it is...love it, love the rush, however I chose to have a blast with PPE even if it requires more sweat in the summer and live..that is fun.
