Life in the temperate zone...

PETZL ZIGZAG VERSION TWO RETURNS

It seems there is some confusion about the Version 2 Petzl ZigZag regarding the issue of fractures/cracks developing in the top link plates, and the process of returning them for replacement. I own several of these units and thought I would share my experiences with them.

I have three of the Version 2 units and one of the Version 3 (latest version) units. The V3 unit has about a dozen climbs on it and gives every indication that the issue was resolved with this release.

One of the V2 units I bought new and has about two dozen climbs on it, with no sign of the issue. The other two were purchased used, and both of them had hairline fractures on the left (serial number) side, on the top link plate when I got them. From conversations with other users who have had the issue, and Petzl, there seems to be a very clear pattern to it. They develop a hairline fracture on the top/left link plate, which cracks through the plate with continued use. It does not drop you, or do anything else scary. It is theoretically possible that it could jam and not want to release for descent, but I haven't been able to find anyone that has actually had this happen. Pictures on the internet of more severe damage strike me as extremely improbable, and look suspiciously like the additional damage was intentionally done, but who knows? It really doesn't matter, as Petzl replaces them. I inspect my gear pretty thoroughly if I think there's any chance there could be a problem, and caught the hairline fractures on the used units immediately. You do have to look very closely, and tip it back and forth to catch it in the light just right. One of the units, the fracture was obvious, on the other it was less obvious and doesn't appear to go all the way through the plate. The previous owners probably didn't know they were there, but again, who knows?

This doesn't concern me one way or the other, because Petzl replaces them, and they only ask for three pieces of information:
Your shipping address, your e-mail address and the serial number of the unit. That's it.

I contacted Petzl through their website (by e-mail) and provided this information. They sent me a link for a printable shipping label and gave me an RMA number. I returned the unit with the most obvious fracture first, and they sent me a new, Version 3 unit. They have sent me another RMA number to return the second unit.

I found Petzl's customer service to be effective, fast, and COST FREE as the shipping label I printed out from the link was for UPS and was prepaid. All I had to do was drop it off at any UPS authorized shipping service. For me, that was a 30 mile drive, but I go there on a regular basis, anyway... I needed to stop at my Stihl/Echo dealer so that was not a problem.

Petzl would be potentially liable for anything that happened to a user with a ZigZag that was found to have a factory or design defect, regardless of whether the user was the original purchaser, or not. I really don't think they care one bit about that, or they would have asked me if I was the original purchaser. They did not, in any of my dealings with them. They inspected the device, and replaced it without any questions. They did not ask me to continue using the device until it cracked all the way through the link plate, or tell me it wasn't broken enough, or ask me if I was playing Tarzan the Masochistic Madman with it and slamming into trees, or any other silly nonsense.

I hope this helps anyone with doubts about the quality of Petzl's customer service or questions about whether or not they stand behind their products.

100_1710.webp

EDIT: Second unit sent to Petzl. They confirmed by e-mail that they will replace it.
 
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First of the ZigZag V2 replacements arrived today...

And, for those of you who expressed concerns that Petzl would replace the V2 units with existing new V2 stock units... umm... no. It is a Version 3 unit.

Replacement-ZigZag-1.webp

I was very impressed with the quick turnaround times and the immediate replacement policy that Petzl has in place. If you have a Version 2 unit, watch for the hairline fracture occurring on the top link, left side plate... and by all means, contact Petzl for an RMA number and shipping label. In spite of the numerous shipping delays here in the midwest due to the blizzard conditions we got hit with, turnaround times are quick. They ship the U.S. returns out from here in the U.S. not Europe.
 
Second of the Version 2 ZigZags that I sent back for replacement came yesterday... another new Version 3 unit, back on my mini-climbing DdRT setup. Took a little longer to get this one back, as shipping was delayed by the blizzard-like snowstorms we had.

ZigZag-V3-Number2.webp
 
Hey, Jeff! I don't know if you've already discussed your "mini-climbing DdRT setup" in previous posts or not, but I'd love to hear more about it.

Do you always bother with the use of friction savers when climbing DdRT on your mini-DdRT setup, or is it the kind of deal where you just want to be able to gain quick access to a new part of the crown of the tree in order to trim a little bit of deadwood, and since it is a brief, one-time thing, you don't bother with the friction savers? Sorry for the run-on sentence.

Also, those Zig-Zags are close to $300 a pop, are they not? That being the case, can you tell me what is so compelling about the use of the Zig-Zag that makes it worth the dollar difference between it and a piece of hitch cord in combination with a hitch-climber pulley?

I know August Hunicke seems to be a big fan of this device, also. Thanks in advance for any answers you choose to give.

Tim
 
If you take the device on and off the rope often, it's definitely not the way to go. I don't... I use a swivel and pulley at the TIP, or OmniBlock, on DdRT and set the anchors off of an SRT line, or spikes/lanyard. I leave the ZigZags on the ropes until I replace them. I have a hitch climber setup for DdRT if I need to use a ring-and-ring FS and install and retrieve it from the ground. The shackle is shorter, narrower and I don't really care for the interaction of a carabiner with my hand when operating the ZZ. Personal preferences that I actually don't expect anyone else to do, or even care about... it's just works for me. I'm no spring chicken, and I'm no athlete, so I do things a little different to make up for it.

When the Akimbo is released, I do intend to work more SRWP into the mix. But, I seriously doubt if I'll ever stop using DdRT... it's not a matter of staying with old school stuff because I'm set in my ways. That's just not the case. All of this stuff is new and exciting to me... the shine just hasn't worn off of last year's stuff. SRT is cool... but most of the time, scrambling around in cottonwoods, silver maples, honey locust and ash trees I just find SRWP to be physically demanding compared to what I've been doing. This is not exactly the land of giant trees. The corn out here is taller than half the trees.
 
Man I love my zigzag. Nothing compares to the perfection of its ease of use. It's like butter. Once I used it I have never been able to go back to a hitch without some frustration. I understand it's had issues and haters gonna hate. That's ok. It was a game changer for me. I had one ordered the morning they arrived at treestuff. I don't think they had even unboxed the shipment when I was pestering Luke LOL
 
Steve, that is a really interesting opinion about the Zig-Zag, to me. I went to TreeStuff earlier to look at the price of the Zig-Zag, and while I was there, I stopped to read a bunch of the reviews of the device.

Most folks really liked it, but a few had the criticism that it seemed to have a super narrow range between engaging for descent and a free-fall. Disconcertingly so, was what I gathered. It seems as though neither you nor JeffGu nor August Hunicke share that opinion, though. You all seem to be absolutely in love with the device, which is really cool to hear about.

When you talk about the frustration of trying to go back to a hitch, the implication for me is that the Zig-Zag must just have been a really consistent performer for you from day to day, whereas when you went back to a hitch, you were faced with the usual variables in trying to get a hitch to perform in a consistent manner. Is this close to getting at the truth of how you feel about the Zig-Zag? A follow up question is, how do you manage to handle the Zig-Zag to avoid the problems that some folks have had with it seeming to be way too sensitive, or having too small a range between stopped and free-falling?

I've never had the chance to climb on the Zig-Zag, but I did get to operate one that was hanging on a rope in an arborist supply house. No weight on it, just the system hanging loosely on the rope. Even operating it just like that, I felt the hypersensitivity of the device when I was just pulling a bit on the bottom biner and operating the release mechanism. So I'm assuming that I'm missing something, and that there is some technique for using it that allows the fine control that has so many climbers feeling so happy to have such a device available.

Any comments in response to my posts are welcome.

Tim
 
Akcd11r said:
Jeff, is there a way to tell by serial number or packaging which version of zig-zag one has, as in ver. 2 vs. 3?
Click to expand...

Yes. But the easiest way is to just look at them. The link plates have been beefed up, and it is really obvious. Especially the top ones.
Pics are V3 on left, V2 on right in all of them. The area shown by arrows makes it easy to identify them. I don't remember the serial number cutoff point for the switch to V3.

V3-V2-ZZ-1.webp V3-V2-ZZ-2.webp V3-V2-ZZ-3.webp

Pics are a bit fuzzy, sorry about that...
 
TimBr said:
...how do you manage to handle the Zig-Zag to avoid the problems that some folks have had...
Click to expand...

I've never understood why some folks gave up so easily. It is, indeed, a very sensitive device when you first play with it. But, how do you deal with keeping a hitch from letting go too fast? Simple, wrap your whole hand around it, and feather the top coil. The ZZ is no different. I wrap my hand around it, light pressure on most of the links and feather the release lever to baby crawl it down, for fine control. Stupid simple. I think people are afraid it will pinch their fingers doing this. Ummm... it won't. I play guitar and have an innate concern for keeping all of my fingers intact. I wouldn't do anything that might snip one off or keep me from playing for more than a couple days. I've never pinched my skin between the links, and believe me, I was worried about it at first.
 
Tim one of the easiest ways I have found to control the sweet spot is actually with the cambium saver. I also found that to be true with the Uni also. Rope make up and size also of course. But with the same rope and 3 different savers you will get 3 different sized sweet spots. Leather for me was most fogiving while a false crotched 3 inch pulley was like skating on ice.
 
TimBr said:
...there is some technique for using it that allows the fine control...
Click to expand...

On longer descents, you get even more control by grasping the tail of the rope with your right hand (wear gloves) held down alongside your right thigh... just exactly like all rock climbers self belay or rappel... this is something you really should be doing, regardless of the descender you are using. However sensitive the ZZ is initially, this helps, and you'll soon discover that the ZZ is consistently the same no matter what rope you're using. 11.5mm to 13mm it feels exactly the same, although with a little bumpier feel with 16-strand and 12-strand ropes. But the release is more consistent than anything else out there, with a wider range of ropes. Below 11.5mm it will slip a little more, but that's outside of the recommended range of rope diameters. Doesn't self-tail as well with true 1/2" ropes, but still is consistent with regard to descents.
 
"Most folks really liked it, but a few had the criticism that it seemed to have a super narrow range between engaging for descent and a free-fall. Disconcertingly so, was what I gathered. It seems as though neither you nor JeffGu nor August Hunicke share that opinion, though. You all seem to be absolutely in love with the device, which is really cool to hear about."

*******I'd contest there is no risk of free fall unless you panic and depress the links all the way while you are freaking out about falling. It's being aware of the device and feathering it like you would with any hitch. It's just very sensitive and not as forgiving. I would not advocate starting out on a mechanical. I'd say it would be a progression from basic to advanced. The main thing I had to become hyper aware of was keeping branches and the like from contacting the top link. The will give you a ride you won't like. I'd say its like anything. Be in tune and one with your system no matter what it may be. Treat it like an extension of you or maybe another appendage like a hand or leg. Don't know it that makes sense or not. I do not share the fear of a free fall on the zz, rr, or bdb. I do find the rr to be the most forgiving out of all of them.

"When you talk about the frustration of trying to go back to a hitch, the implication for me is that the Zig-Zag must just have been a really consistent performer for you from day to day, whereas when you went back to a hitch, you were faced with the usual variables in trying to get a hitch to perform in a consistent manner. Is this close to getting at the truth of how you feel about the Zig-Zag? A follow up question is, how do you manage to handle the Zig-Zag to avoid the problems that some folks have had with it seeming to be way too sensitive, or having too small a range between stopped and free-falling?"

********Exactly. The zz is consistent every time. No adjustment needed. No bind up. No grippy spots or need to break the friction. No drag on ascent. It ascends better than anything on the market I've climbed on including my every day go to gear. When they recalled the first batch I was a broken man. I even switched from a VT to a knut as my prussic knot in an effort to improve the performance. It helped but never performed like a mechanical for me. I read Reg's post. He seems to have a perfect set up. I never found it for whatever reason, be it skill, gear, or body weight. The mechanical saves me a lot of effort and frustration. See above explanation for finding the sweet spot. It's like a index finger and thumb thing. Not a hand thing. It requires such little hand pressure and more just a little gentle finger pressure. I kept my palm on the friction chain and thumb and index finger on the top link. It just worked like nothing else. No extra gear. No tending harness or tether. It would just hang on my bridge as I climbed and over 10' I could climb with both hands on the tree and never tend slack until I stopped. I would then tension it a bit to prevent sitback. The rope just fell through it. If I slipped, it would lock up quickly to prevent free fall.


"I've never had the chance to climb on the Zig-Zag, but I did get to operate one that was hanging on a rope in an arborist supply house. No weight on it, just the system hanging loosely on the rope. Even operating it just like that, I felt the hypersensitivity of the device when I was just pulling a bit on the bottom biner and operating the release mechanism. So I'm assuming that I'm missing something, and that there is some technique for using it that allows the fine control that has so many climbers feeling so happy to have such a device available."

********It is much better to judge with your weight on it. It makes a huge difference. It's not hyper sensitive. It's perfect. IMHO I loved it with a rw on single rope. I preferred something midline attachable just to make it easier on the ground. Hated to run 200' of rope through it every time I set up for a climb. Or to use either end of my rope when the situation dictated. Especially since I like a tight eye on the end of all my lines. Plus all the cool kids had bdb, and rr. I had to be like the cool kids and get one or both. Plus I got tired of having 8" of climbing device in front of me counting the zz, stiffy, and rw. Just looked for something more versatile and compact. I still use it sometimes. Almost always on crane jobs when I climb dDrt or whatever the new abbreviation is. (Drwps or something) I'd say climb on all of them and then make your decision. They are all awesome but have drawbacks. It's whatever works best for you in your given situation. Hope that helps Tim
 
monkeylove said:
...control the sweet spot is actually with the cambium saver...
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah... it's actually better on descent with a FS. But, I love the low-friction ascents and limbwalk returns with the pulley, and the almost non-existent rope wear at the TIP so I use the 1.5" OmniBlocks... perfect spacing for the two rope legs, and great bend radius. I have the 2" OmniBlocks which are even better bend radius, but the spacing between the rope legs is a little more than I like. I'm a picky bastard.
 
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