Learning to Splice

Cashmerio

Cashmerio

Ive always wanted to learn to splice, so I bought an length of Blaze to learn on and hopefully make a spliced flipline and climbing line with. Ive been following Yale's double braid eye splice instructions.

http://www.yalecordage.com/html/pdf/yale_indust_dbraid.pdf

Im on my thrid attempt. The first was a big mess. The second produced a recognizable eye splice but with a little core showing in the corner. The current try is stalled because, again, I cant get the fid through the extremely tight crossover. Im getting a discouraging amount of friction at this step and in milking the cover back around the eye. Last time I got the core through by melting the its end until it had a hard cap and pushed that through behind a smaller fid. It sort of worked, but not well. I have many questions:

1. Am I following the right instructions for this rope?
2. Do I need specialized equipment other than the fid and pusher rod?
3. Is Blaze known as being difficult to splice?
4. Can you think of anything else Im doing wrong?

Thanks in advance friends,

-Ryan
 
[ QUOTE ]
1. Am I following the right instructions for this rope?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes.


[ QUOTE ]
2. Do I need specialized equipment other than the fid and pusher rod?

[/ QUOTE ] No, but a bent coat hanger would help. Find some stiff wire and make a fid to PULL the rope, rather than push it.

[ QUOTE ]
3. Is Blaze known as being difficult to splice?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes. Set it aside for now and practice on a line like Yale Yacht Braid, Double Esterlon, Stable Braid, Sta-Set, etc. Get the motions down, then when you have it nailed, hit the Blaze

[ QUOTE ]
4. Can you think of anything else Im doing wrong?

[/ QUOTE ] Yes, You don't need to melt the rope when putting the splice together. Taper the ends to a short 2" taper, then wrap them with masking tape to make a "bullet" that will travel easy inside the rope. A wire puller (or the Toss Wand) will make things even easier.

We'll talk you through it! Just keep the questions coming, take pictures if you need to. Massage the rope when doing that final bury. Massage it more! Measure carefully.

love
nick
 
Oh, and you wrote, "I can't get the fid through the extremely tight crossover"

We have to get our terminology straight here. I bet you mean the "throat" of the splice? The crossover is the point where the core goes into the cover, and the cover goes into the core. The fid should go through that point very easily.

The throat of the splice would be the fat tapered part of the finished splice that is the transition from the eye to the regular standing part of the rope.

Best of luck!

love
nick
 
that final little bit of bury is a killer, especially if you are just starting out. Nick is right about pulling the rope, a coat hanger is the ticket for me, although i do have a couple of "toss" wands. don't get discouraged it does take a lot of practice, and you started with a harder than avarege rope, you would find that a sampson double braid is much better to learn on (try 5/8"). if you are still having trouble with these, try some 16 strand, some 3 strand, and some 12 strand hollow braid.... this will wet your appetite and get you in the mood to try somthing harder


Rob
 
Yes, I meant "throat", thanks. A coathanger huh? I did try to make a wire fid with a coathanger at one point but gave up too soon most likely.

Leaving the second attempt nearly complete with some core showing at the throat, I started a third using shorter distances as called for in the Samson double braid instructions (the throat was about 2 inches). It was easier, and I was able to get a tubular fid through after two or three sessions. I would generally have to stop when my hands got sweaty. Using my melted cap tequnique, it came out looking alright.

On my first and second, I got the sense that the rope was laughing at me and seemed to enjoy detroying any configuration of masking tape I shoved in there. I tried duck tape, which just gummed everything up, before metling the end. Next time Ill give the coathanger annother chance.

The tubular fid seems like it would work if only there were a way to reduce friction. Has anyone ever tried putting some Astroglide or KY on the fid or in the rope? Be honest, no one here is going to judge you.
 
Cashmerio....I think you might be doing something wrong. The setup of the whole splice should really be quite simple. No sweaty hands, and no KY necessary, even for Blaze.

Tell me which step, either on Samson or Yale directions, specifically are you having trouble with. I don't understand what you mean when you say,"I was able to get a tubular fid through after two or three sessions."

Once you have the crossover completed- the core is going into the cover and exits at the throat, then the cover enters the core....you're done with the fid now.

Where's the hang up?

We'll get you straightened out.

love
nick

ps- pictures will help big time.
 
get a "toss" splicing wand and the splice will get a lot easier. I splice velocity, pretty sure it is similar stuff to thr blaze rope, and it is so tight I can't imagine trying to splice it without a wand. I have found that with the velocity's waxy finish that the wand gets almost tacky. I sometimes spray a little silicone spray on the wand to make it a little more slippery and help the splice happen a little smoother, but all in all the double braid splice on a tight rope is not at all easy physically. keep practicing, because a good splice is a thing of beauty.
Dan
 
I HATE splicing Velocity, and from what my hand tells me its only slighty tighter than Blaze.

Nick, I got a few things to send your way!
 
You guys make me feel good /forum/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Where in the double braid splices do you guys have trouble getting fids or the wand through? Even in Velocity or Blaze, you can bunch up the cover when you're going in to get the core and pull it through....that bunch up gives PLENTY of room to get the wand through, and just enough room to get the appropriately sized hollow fid through.

Get your coat-hangers, boys!

love
nick

ps- Carl- send it over!
 
Carl or Nick,

Put those pics on here so we can alll learn. Or at least me anyway....Im wanting to get this double braid figured out and if someone else is having probs, it will help me avoid the same things.

THANKS in advance.
 
Im still planning on getting some pictures up, but in the meantime here is an update: splice #3 on Blaze was a success, followed by a successful and much faster splice #4. Its hard to say what is causing them to get easier. Its still freaking tight using a fid, but "bunching the cover" down around the fid as Nick says, rather than shoving the [what???] thing through seems to help. The final step of milking the cover to the end of the throat is all about wiggling the throat around and persistence. Yank, yank, yank.

Big thanks to Nick and Rob and others. I probably would have cleaned up the mess in my living room last week if not for your encoragement and advice.

-Ryan
 
An update: After working my way through about three reasonably sucesfull eye splices on Blaze, the I watched the Brion Toss video. The first splice he does is my favorite, the double braid, he suggests some improvements over standard instructions that make sense, however, He only uses his patented Splicing Wand clamped in a bench vice. I find it difficult to translate his technique to working freehand with a fid, and Im not ready to cough up $80 for the wand.

I want to do more splicing, but Im out of rope dammit. Ive been looking for other splicable lines around the house and inventing reasons they should be spliced.
 
pending on the rope and size used as to how much to burry... remember to work the rope alot, it will loosen.
the diff between Toss' wand and freehand is he pulls the rope where you may have to push.
last resort > shockload after you've milked as far as you can by hand, but don't try to shockload too soon.
be sure to burry the correct amount, too little makes a weak splice, and too much makes it very hard to burry.
keep everything clean and uniform.
whipping string is our friend.
 
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