Kong Rope Safety

Kevin

Kevin

Location
Ontario, Canada
Is there a carabiner that will span 2" and fit through the upper attachment holes of the Kong double handled ascender to prevent the doubled rope from escaping the cams?
 
You can put a Kleimheist through the handles and connect into that stops the rope coming out easily and gives you a partial secondary backup.

didj
 
From what i have heard most of the accidents in Europe have happened when one or both cams have been opened when pushing through branches when accessing the crown....
With no secondary.......
 
Didjon--I understand the cam getting jammed open. Then the ascender may be free to slide down the rope without grabbing. What I'm referring to is the need to capture the rope with a biner at the top of the ascender. Under your scenario the biner would do nothing to stop uncontrolled descent that I can see.

Kevin--Same thing. I know Petzl ascenders particularly are prone to slippage under side loading, but the use of a capturing biner doesn't seem to help that either.

I use CMI ascenders...the safety latch prevents the ascender from coming off the rope, but even if I had a biner capturing the rope I think if I wished I could still manipulate the latch and cam and remove the ascender from the rope...the biner wouldn't restrict movement enough to prevent it.

So I am missing something. I'm sure folks are using the biner to capture the rope at the top of the ascender for a good reason...I just can't figure it out.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of pushing the ascender up and having the rope slip out.
The other purpose would be to attach a back up microcender or hitch to the biner for ease and speed.
 
Kevin--There is no way that I can see for the rope to slip out unless you release the safety latch that restricts the cam's movement. Handled ascenders are not like the Pantin in this regard. And how would it help you to have a biner around the rope if it DID slip from the cam? It wouldn't keep it in place. Now if you want to attach a backup that's a different subject...

I have seen pictures of some climbers simply clipping a biner through the top hole and around the ascent line. This is the practice that I am wondering about. Could it be to act as a guard to help keep stuff from jamming the cam? I'm not very satisfied that I have a solid theory there :). There must be something I'm missing.
 
I believe the idea is for the biner to act as a guide to keep the rope oriented in the top of the ascender, allowing the rope to enter the ascender smoothly and reducing the possibility of the rope twisting out sideways if the ascender were to get turned around. It also seems to help deflect leaves and twigs away from the ascender cam.

Granted, I'm stretching here. If I hadn't been told to put a biner in the top ascender hole for safety, I doubt I would see a need for it. I guess I do it because everyone says it's how you should do it.
 
i always put a biner thru the top hole. Yes, the cam could potentially slip on the rope. The only thing the biner does is lock the ascender to the line. Handled ascenders have the potetial of pulling the line out sideways if side loaded.
i use a yates rocker on a biner thru this hole as a backup to the handled ascender. Of course this only works for srt, but that is all i do anyway
 
I think it's a strech, too, Rocky. The biner is so close to the nose of the ascender, and the inside dimension of the biner is so large relative to the entry point of the rope into the ascender that I see no way it can influence the rope's orientation to the ascender. As I said, I guess the biner may sometimes help shed debris away from the cam, but I can't call that argument compelling. You still have to watch all the time, checking for that kind of interference with the ascenders, so what's the advantage?

Treehopper--Please tell me how the rope can slip out of the ascender when "side loaded". I can't visualize the situation. And how does the biner "lock" the ascender on the rope? I can put a biner in the top hole with the rope running through it without the ascender being mounted. The ascender is just to big to keep the rope in line with the nose of the ascender. I don't mean to sound harsh, I just am frustrated that I'm not seeing the point here...thanks.
 
Putting the biner through the top hole isn't a super, duper triple whammy safety but it is a little bit of help. The rope could still get pushed down.

Using hithc pins or implement clips is the best idea that I've heard of yet for the doubled Kong's.
 
The only problem with the pin is it doesn't give you an attachment for a back up if you want one.
I'm going to opt for a brass snap for the center holes a little larger than the dog leash snap.
I can tie a prusik loop onto the snap and leave it there.
The hitch can be tied with the snap attached and then simply clipped onto the ascender.
 
It will be used to back up the mechanical ascender from above, I'll still be using a distel for life support tied in below.
Get to the top and shed the Kong and its back up hitch, work off the distel.
 
I think I am following you now, Kevin. You want to prevent yourself from pulling the ascender down on top of your distel hitch if the ascender cam fails, right?

Are you using the double handled Kong ascender on a single line? And are you footlocking or using a Pantin, or something else? The only attachment between you and the ascender is your hands?

I use a completely different setup than I am visualizing you are using, so all the questions :).
 
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