Is "wobbling" a tree down by cutting off short sections at a time a good plan?

W

Winchman

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Southwest Georgia
That's probably not the correct term, but maybe you get the idea. The tree is in a tight spot with no room to fell it in one piece. I'm thinking I can cut it so it leans against another tree, and then make notches on opposite sides of the trunk so the tree falls to one side and then the other as the sections break off. Seems like it would work. Anyone ever try it, successfully or not? Any tips would be appreciated.
 
I do admit that I’ve done this intentionally, however it’s frowned upon and should be avoided. It poses safety issues and can damage “leave” trees
 
IMG_1761.JPG
A white pine uprooted and leaned into another tree, to the left.

A throwline was used to set a guy rope in the top and tied off perpendicular to the lay.

I made the series of salami cuts to bring the trunk vertical and take weight off. Ab out 30+ feet of trunk were cut off using salami cuts.

The final cut was made with an open face on the underside/left side of the trunk. Then I made a plunge cut to leave a hinge. The saw was worked back to cut up to the holding strap. A nip cut was made below the strap.

After that I cleared out...a tree length away...and had the winch snugged up gently. with a few gentle tugs the strap broke and the hinge held nicely. The trunk hinged over, closing the face, slow and gentle. The winch then pulled the top out nice and neat.

Julian and Jake were a great team to work with. They would watch the top of the tree while I was cutting, whistles in their mouth ready to go in case something happened. Lots of careful talk between cuts. No cut was made without 100% agreement.

I got a real kick out of how the salami chunks stuck as I moved up. None of the pieces in the pic were moved. That's how the stood after each cut.
 
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Tom Dunlap said:
View attachment 64549
A white pine uprooted and leaned into another tree, to the left.

A throwline was used to set a guy rope in the top and tied off perpendicular to the lay.

I made the series of salami cuts to bring the trunk vertical and take weight off. Ab out 30+ feet of trunk were cut off using salami cuts.

The final cut was made with an open face on the underside/left side of the trunk. Then I made a plunge cut to leave a hinge. The saw was worked back to cut up to the holding strap. A nip cut was made below the strap.

After that I cleared out...a tree length away...and had the winch snugged up gently. with a few gentle tugs the strap broke and the hinge held nicely. The trunk hinged over, closing the face, slow and gentle. The winch then pulled the top out nice and neat.

Julian and Jake were a great team to work with. They would watch the top of the tree while I was cutting, whistles in their mouth ready to go in case something happened. Lots of careful talk between cuts. No cut was made without 100% agreement.

I got a real kick out of how the salami chunks stuck as I moved up. None of the pieces in the pic were moved. That's how the stood after each cut.
Click to expand...
I know you are aware, but just thought I'd publicly state that I have personally witnessed an arborist crush his foot with a salami cut. It broke two bones, and had a hard time healing.. I think total recovery time was close to 6 months if I recall correctly.

It's great to know how to deal with such hangups when they occur (naturally or accidentally) but best to avoid them from occurring... Basically if the plan is to hang a tree up, there best be a good reason
 
Pics always help on a thing of this nature.




If you fell tree A into tree B,
you can put a pull rope on A just above a spot for a facecut,
and put a face-cut in A facing B,
put a little tension on the line so the back-cut doesn't close during cutting,
Wedge to prevent binding if possibly to cut up to, but NOT through the hinge...consider marking the hinge out with the tip of the saw in advance, if needed.
Cut the back-cut up to the hinge.
Move back,
and pull.
Tree A will fold away from tree B, flattening the angle of tree A; Tree A gets steeper with Salami/ Walking-it-down cuts.





You can face-cut to the left, and move the butt to the right.

You can face-cut to the right, and move the butt to the left.

You can face-cut ro the right, and move the butt to the left, repeatedly, and often roll tree A off B.


If you are doing this, your hinge will be cross-wise to the lean. If you make the hinge in the middle and "balance it", you can fold it with a rope, pushing or pulling with a branch/ ax, or wedging.
Fleet-footedness is needed more with each option that is not a rope pulled from far away.



I can imagine a salami cut severing a foot. It's a bad deal to get crushed.
 
I do this often. With little trees in a thick stand, and I’m talking little, like 10”dbh or smaller. And Evo is absolutely correct, good way to smash your foot, or leg, or top of your head with a limb that’s suddenly down in your space.
 
It puts a lot of stress on the your rigging tree. I have done it but only with 10-12” trees, and when my rigging tree is much bigger and stronger tree. Why not set up a rigging point in your bigger tree, climb the tree you’re taking out and rig it out in a few pieces over to your rig tree? When in doubt, going smaller is rarely a bad idea.
 
Agree...lots of potential danger.

With three of us analyzing each cut and needing 100% agreement made for success.

Hanging a tree is nothing I'd do deliberately.
 
southsoundtree said:
You can face-cut to the left, and move the butt to the right.
You can face-cut to the right, and move the butt to the left.
Click to expand...

That's what I had in mind. Is there an accepted name for that? The tree moves back and forth (wobbles) at the bottom as it gets shorter. Limbs are removed as they become accessible.

I'd be using a rope to pull from a safe distance. The trick is going to be getting the right hinge...large enough to hold while I'm getting away, but small enough to break when I pull. What's right will change with each cut.

The tree is about forty-five feet tall and eight inches in diameter. It's too close to the concrete slab of a metal building, and may eventually cause serious problems. The nearby trees provide shade for the wall, so I don't want to mess them up. They aren't much bigger, so rigging it out doesn't seem like an option.

I may have to get the pros to lift it out in pieces with their truck-mounted crane.
 
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If there is side stresses, weaknesses, or wind loads, or even if just a large salami cut (spear cut) is being made, you can stagger progressive bore cuts (sort of looks like a staircase rotated 90 degrees vertically) with just a little overlap with each bore cut, leaving a strap on top. Cut the strap and it breaks free.

Can be much safer... but cuts must be precise - but you have lots of time available to make them precise..
 
Using a strap on the back of the cut like SST and I suggest works great.

When i had space to practice I tried making smaller and smaller straps to see how little I could use. Surprisingly little. But bigger than I think you could break without a machine or Hobbs/GRCS.

Tripping the strap is tricky in this situation. No one can be inside the Tree Length felling area. How many sections of pole saw can you use?

Worth repeating...we're talking about doing something here that is very much deep in The Red Zone. Practice first where it doesn't matter. Have others involved in the decision making. No one can strong arm their ideas...it has to be agreement.
 
Thanks for all the input. It appears the answer to my original question is no, it's not a good plan. Fortunately, trees grow slowly. I've got plenty of time to figure out a better way to deal with this tree.
 
Pictures always help, along with a tree ID or at least general ID.

Can you simply hang one tree off another, and wobble it down? The rigging line can be kept a little slack so as you wobble it down, the new butt hits the ground, and the rope then comes tight as the tree settles. About 2' of slack and 2' wobbled-off trunk chunks. The ground takes the bulk of the force. The rope and rigging tree take a little.

Once you cut enough of the bottom off, the remaining piece will become top-heavy/ you'll be tied below the Center of Gravity, and it will flip over. RuN FasT! No, just kidding. Before getting to this imbalanced point, pull the butt out to the side while the rope holds the top, then lower it down, or otherwise manage it. Don't let it flip and bonk you on your helmet.



Making a directional facecut and backcut may be overkill for wobbling some trees down. When you do it all the time, it's fast and easy. If you don't make them all the time, it might be overcomplicating an already new situation. A kerf cut on the tension side, most of the way through, leaving a strap of compression wood might wobble it down.


P.S. This is where we read about accidents to cutters on the ground. "Struck-by" is the #1 way to get dead in tree work.





If felled into another tree, and cut off the (low) stump, the butt can be landed onto something for skidding on, like a piece of plywood, then you can get the rope attached to the butt, get way, and pull.



I've put a notch into the butt of the off-the-stump tree, maybe 10" x 50' dead fir, then put my hand-truck blade into the notch, dropped the handle, lifting the blade, and walked backward pulling the hand-truck with the tree over the axle, EZPZ, until the top wanted to fall free.

People do this with manual log-arches.

With my mini-loader, I did this with a dead, dead cedar that I preferred not to climb. Tipped into another tree, barely, barely lifted the butt, and moved backward, letting the dead tree slide gently down the neighboring tree until I could chunk off 12' millable logs.
 
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