Insight on difficult patients to prune.

Viking

Viking

Location
Columbus Ohio
My question is mostly geared towards ornamentals. We all hate the wide, spreading elms with no central TIP, or any monster with a bad TIP.

This post is more for the snippers and the clippers. I am early in my career and have taken the pruning knowledge from the books, CEU'S, conferences ETC and applied that through watching, learning, and practicing proper pruning on mature trees. Because I have the most experience pruning Silver Maples at this time, I know exactly what to look for when on the ground, and when in the tree. What cuts to make etc. Driving down the road I can spot a properly, or improperly pruned silver no prob. Just like a good little arborist should right???

Ornamentals seem the be a slower learning process for me. Just as much art as science. I know the more ornamental pruning I will do, the more it will come naturally, I just need to get over this hump of call backs where people didn't think I touched it.

What is your ornamental pruning process? Where do you like to start? Whats your philosophy etc..etc.... I have looked around library's and bookstores for the holy grail of ornamental tree pruning and have had little luck.
 
Hey Viking

You are discovering probably the squishiest and most subjective areas of residential work.
Some thoughts I have if you are the one discussing scope of work with a potential client:
Find out ahead of time if they are envisioning a tree that will end up like a lollipop. The more elderly the customer the more 'formal' or 'tamed' they seem to want it. Some elderly people are thinking more than lollipop - into hatrack territory. Find out what they are imagining the tree will look like after, and if it is gross beyond conscience try and talk them out of it or walk away if they can't be swayed.
We will shape crabs if the cuts are not going to be extreme. Crabs and apples have also been domesticated so long and have been selected for their ability to cope with extreme or frequent pruning. Harder to justify severe pruning on some other small trees.
Also since you are more frequently on ladders or can easily hop out of these trees, step back and admire your work as you progress from the steps, porch or window that they are probably going to look at it from.
Sometimes its possible to make apparently big changes without really making drastic cuts - such as by raising the canopy on droopy branched trees if reduction is one of the things they want.
My comments are directed at the challenges of meeting customer expectations while still adhering to good pruning practices for the purposes of avoiding callbacks to 'take off more'!.
There is an art to working each type of tree that just comes with practice - like drawing, music or any other skill that has an aesthetic component to it.
Sorry this is so long.
 
Thanks Frax, a post is never to long if I bring it to the buzzers to seek council!

As green and embarrassing as it may sound, shaping crabs has been the thorn in my side. I start by making my largest handsaw cuts ans saying to myself "nows THATS gotta GO!" then proceed to the other major D's etc. But once I get to the aesthetic portion nearing the top, or outside line I start to loose that proper pruning confidence I once had beginning the tree. Those right angles, and in most cases total lack of structure on crabs can send me into fits. Most difficult cases are when the client wants to see that nasty overgrown monster (which hasn't been pruned for years) "look like a tree again". DEEP BREATH......

I will win this battle
 
I don't usually have this luxury being a production climber...but, if I was the sales arborist....wow, the list can really go on from there. Anyway, in this situation, I would take a pic, print it out and have the client mark where they would prune. Obviously, I would have to print another pic with the compromise that me and the client came up with. I would then pass this on to my climber/crew leader. At least it would be some direction. I'm sure this is perfect world type crap. "We can't take that much time", etc., etc.

PS, Viking. If they can't tell that you have been there then I think you are doing a pretty good job. At least you aren't murdering the tree.
 
I have trouble with those tangly trees too; Prunus mume are like crabs in that regard. One strategy is to first connect with the tree by touching it or sitting up against it and get quiet with it, and ask the tree's permission to prune, and ask what it wants.

Sounds spacey I know but I swear sometimes it will (nonverbally) answer, send a vibe. maybe this is self-deception and a cheap trick to build confidence, but just like faith can heal, confidence can build on itself.
 
I agree across the board. It is mostly art but driven by the science behind the cuts.

You really need to know what the client wants and what they are looking for.

You also need to do what Guy suggested. That time spent just absorbing what the tree is telling you will help you balance what the customer wants with what the tree wants to do.

Every tree tells a story, you need to develop the ability to read and hear that story from the tree. Just looking at it will do that but you need to look at it without saw in hand otherwise you won't hear what it is telling you.

Most of our ornamental prunes are for wayyy overdue trees. Seldom, if ever, are we able to give the client's what they want in one pruning session. Here is where education and explanation about tree time come into play.

I all at once hate and love ornamental pruning jobs. And now that I am charging for them inline with the effort I am beginning to love them more than hate them.
grin.gif
 
Got to agree with Rick, Guy and Frax!

Love/hate relationship with ornamental pruning. You really need to have the discussion with the client while standing in front of the tree. What are they looking to achieve? That starts the conversation. From there you can bring into the discussion the limits placed on their goal by proper pruning techniques. If there are tons of suckers and or shoots from internodal cuts of the past then point these out as the result of improper pruning previously done. Lead into what the limits are and if what they are trying to accomplish can be done in a single session. Often once you take the time to educate the client in context of their needs they will buy into the proper pruning method and be willing to commit to a long term plan. Paint the picture in their minds eye of what it will look like and get their acknowledgement of this image. By taking the time you will be able to charge appropriately for the work involved.

I'll usually use the "good haircut" analogy, you don't notice it but feel there's an improvement.
 
If you are looking for a good reference manual, I would suggest "Pruning and Training" by The American Horticultural Society. This book has it all. Lots and lots of pictures and information on when and how to prune for different species. It deals with lots of different ornamentals and takes the guess work out of what you are trying to do.
 
Pruning is like reading a book.
Word for word, sentence for sentence so on and so on. You have to focus on the story. Ornamental, upright, pyramidal, broad etc. Don't miss out on the story.

Trying to please the client and easthetics are the two last things on the list. But need to be adressed to collect the cheque.

For health and vigor, safety and maintaining distances.

Treat each tree/ornamental the way it is proposed for Training a Young Tree in Arboriculture by Harris. Memorize these principles and you can prune anything confidently and sell the work respectfully.

I find if the tree/ornamental isn't cooperating and many do not because of their past improper prunings.
Throw on a smile and make do with what the tree has given you.

Next best advice is to study Bonsai collection when ever you get a chance to feel the art. I was fortunate enough to have study tours in New York and London with exceptional collections. But online is good enough.

Some of the best prunes are the one that accentuate the horizontal lines/structure. Gives the eye a place to settle and calms.

One more is to walk around the speciemen and then counter clock wise. Trees will talk to you and let you know what they want. Nothing feels better than to help your patient conduct effeciently and be safe for another cycle.
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I find it very difficult to find any elm in central ohio that doesn't need extensive pruning and a PHC plan. Most have either been mutilated or never been pruned. The most attractive ones I have found pruned properly are on Ackerman Rd. across from the OSU parking lot adjacent to 315.
 
When you work on ornamentals such as small trees and / or shrubs, remember there are two basic concepts to follow, you either prune in a formal method ie. little drums and balls of foliage or you prune informal or natural shape pruning.

The formal is following a shape which sometimes takes 2-3 years to accomplish. the natural is following the natural characteristics of the variety of the plant in which you are pruning...

the advantage of working in this area of plant care is the variety of shapes both natural and formal and the knowledge of the varieties and the development of techniques used to achieve the requested outcome..In other words you will learn alot about woody ornamentals if you do this.
 
When I first started I spent some time with a guy who had around 38 years experience in the industry. He doesn't climb any more so the salesmen would always put him on all the ornamental jobs...this guy had nothing short of a gift for shaping, thinning, corrective pruning, reductions, reductions done over a several year period. A few simple but profound tips that I learned from him and have really helped me are

keep moving, never prune in one spot too long...you'll make a hole

always try and hide your cuts. Use drop crotching pruning methods for that natural look. If it looks like you sheared the tree your probably not doing it right.

If your doing a major reduction SOMETIMES its better to thin the tree first. You'll find that you don't have to make as many cuts to get the proper shape at the end plus it looks more natural.

If it's the clients favorite tree, take alot of steps back and look at what you've done and where your going. Can't glue the stuff back on

When you are done put the pole pruner or handsaw down and step away from the tree! Don't jack your work up by being too particular or overthinking.


These have helped me out alot. The eye for it is developed over time as well. It's just like developing as a climber on a smaller scale. Eventually you can take a look at most ornamentals and right away know what your gonna do, how your gonna do it, and what reasons your gonna give the client for why it's the best way for what they want.
I gotta say that ornamental pruning is such a great break sometimes. It's great to have a job where you have to put a lightning protection system in a 120 foot tulip poplar on one property and then shape the next door neighbors dogwoods and magnolia's. I love it!!!!
 
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