How to Shape / Trim Ornamental Trees

climbingmonkey24

climbingmonkey24

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
United States
How do you all go about pruning / shaping ornamental trees? Do you use a pole saw with the pruner end to just clip the ends of branches, or use hand pruners or hedge trimmer etc.?

I looked at a job where client wants these kinds of trees shaped

D00B3736-80B9-4AE8-B356-4470651AD27D.jpeg

These above they want flat on bottom and top and round on sides like a “lollipop” I guess you could say.

These below they want more “bullet” shaped, so a natural top type look and the sides going inwards down towards the base.

B2C06219-4B91-460B-991B-02A0AB029E99.jpeg
 
Orchard ladder, loppers, hand pruner, hand saw, pole lopper. Clean up with sheers if they want it really tight. I go in with the ladder and hand pruners first take out the bulk with nicer cuts to laterals to avoid a lot of heading. Then graduate to loppers and pole loppers. Then use sheers for the small stray stuff. Not a job I enjoy.

these are surprisingly handy for that work:

www.amleo.com

ARS LongReach Loppers, 1.7-inch Cutting Capacity

Ideal for large, high pruning cuts. Helps to reduce injury or disease of the tree limbs with a clean cut. Lever mechanism makes it easier to cut through thick tree limbs. The convertible arm section allows you to turn the pruner blades in any direction without moving the hand grip, and cut...
www.amleo.com www.amleo.com
 
There’s almost a total of 40 of these trees, all around the same size and it’s all the same thing shaping etc.

What do you guy’s think on pricing something like this, a ballpark figure just to get an idea of what range should be aiming for? I know everyone prices differently.

Like the 2k-3k range, or is that too low...? Should I be in the 5k or above range?

Very wealthy and upscale neighborhood as well.
 
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Make Sure they aren't expecting it to look like in their imagination, which is laser-sharp, and has no bearing on reality.


As well, they need to expect them pruned frequently, like having their lawn regrowth sheared.

Once popsicled or lollipopped, there is no going backwards.



I had a very high end client who was an engineer-type, and highly, highly detail oriented. I could have shaped his evergreen magnolias to his liking with a string to measure the radius of the crown. He wanted geometric trees.

I spent good time and effort to "fix" the results of lots of shearing of ornamentals, with the hydra of regrowth.

I bet they're getting sheared again.

Pictures of what they want will be better than words.

Could be very time consuming.
 
I think there is definitely a full hedging for each tree in that workflow. Do you have a lithium hedger? It's going to take 2-3 prunes to get it into the form they want. If some of the vegetation is too thick to hedge, you'll need a full kit of tools - 200mm silky, long reach loppers, tripod ladders of 10' and 16' height, loppers, hand pruners, sharpener, small chainsaw with quarter tip and pico chain. The closer you get to the cut, the better the cut will be.

If the driveway trees need perking up, you can use the new ornamental rates for paclobutrazol that Arborjet put out. You can mulch them with fresh chips from your work there, if they do not require pine bark. Looks like the trunks need care at grade level. You can also evaluate them for pests like scale and come up with a recurring treatment plan. The other trees look pretty healthy.

If you like English style topiary, this will be a great job. I find it extremely boring, so I would charge a massive amount to do it in order to motivate me to get through it.

Jake Hobson has a nice book on English style topiary, btw. To me, it's not nearly as cool as his English language Japanese topiary and garden tree book, "Niwaki".
 
This would be my first real experience doing trees like this.

Can someone give a ballpark figure of what they would charge to do this? For almost 40 trees of the ones in the picture? I’m just wondering what range I should be aiming for. Obviously I know everyone prices differently.
 
How tall are these trees? From what I’m seeing, a 12’ ladder would get you within a hedge clipper’s reach of the top. If so, I could probably clip them into decent shape in an hour a tree, not including cleanup time.
 
Reach said:
How tall are these trees? From what I’m seeing, a 12’ ladder would get you within a hedge clipper’s reach of the top. If so, I could probably clip them into decent shape in an hour a tree, not including cleanup time.
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I want to say 15-20 ft maybe give or take.

That would come out to almost 40 hours if an hour at each, which depending on hourly rate could be anywhere from 5k-10k.

Or do guy’s charge less for these?
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
I want to say 15-20 ft maybe give or take.

That would come out to almost 40 hours if an hour at each, which depending on hourly rate could be anywhere from 5k-10k.

Or do guy’s charge less for these?
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It's still hourly rate. You have to figure out how much time per tree, or per 5 trees, then how much time to manage debris. Then add 20% because you'll probably go over... My hourly rate is different according to which equipment I use. The base rate is what I apply to this type of work, plus debris management. If I chipped, I would add the cost of the chipper and the hours to apply chips. If I loaded brush into my trailer, I add the trailer and off site dump fee.
 
I think an hour per tree might be too much. It may take an hour those first few trees to find your process, but it should honestly come down to 30-40 min per tree afterward, solo pruning. Cleanup would be done by groundie while you're doing next tree So, 30 min per tree at two man rate plus setup/teardown time and disposal. Be careful charging customer too much for teaching yourself how to shape these. There are some landscapers here that can do a really good job on something like this without going nuts on the price. I think factor two man crew, ground rate, for low risk, light brush - bump up for your artistic ability. At least in my locale, when I run across customers like this, which isn't very often, I can tell you that they're likely going to choke at a $10k bid. This is where the landscapers can come in and cut your tree legs right out from under you, so just keep that in mind when bidding.
 
Do you think a 5k-6k bid would still be over the top?

I haven’t done these types of ornamental trees but my business is built around pruning so I feel like it could be a good learning experience and opportunity to expand my skills.

So yea I’m unsure what the right range would be here.

initially I was thinking 2k-3k when I first saw it.
 
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climbingmonkey24 said:
Do you think a 5k-6k bid would still be over the top?

I haven’t done these types of ornamental trees but my business is built around pruning so I feel like it could be a good learning experience and opportunity to expand my skills.

So yea I’m unsure what the right range would be here.

initially I was thinking 2k-3k when I first saw it.
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I hate saying this, but it's not really pruning. The end goal is hedging. Pruning is incidental to helping establish the hedging, and hedging covers up inadequacies in tree structure by piling on the leaves at the outer edge of the canopy. Might want to do a 2-3 year contract where you prune initially, then hedge once or twice a year thereafter. That way they understand the upfront expense. They ultimately need hedging maintenance over time.
 
In my market, pruning just doesn't get the respect it deserves, so hitting the right bid can be challenging sometimes. I struggle to make my target rate on prunes, but have no problem hitting it doing removals of large wood of any sort. Just know that you may end up competing with a some landscapers, so the "tree guy" edge will be lost. From another perspective though, I don't see where a nice digestible number of $100 per tree would send a customer running for the door. That's about where I would go in at in my market.

EDIT: But @colb made a good point about hedging. I would plan to give the customer more reduction cuts and fewer heading cuts at that price - and make sure they knew I giving them that - which could make you look more desirable.
 
The customer wants them tightened up and sheared basically.
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Do you guys remember the first ornamental tree hedging job you ever did in your career? We’re you nervous?
 
Birdyman88 said:
In my market, pruning just doesn't get the respect it deserves, so hitting the right bid can be challenging sometimes. I struggle to make my target rate on prunes, but have no problem hitting it doing removals of large wood of any sort. Just know that you may end up competing with a some landscapers, so the "tree guy" edge will be lost. From another perspective though, I don't see where a nice digestible number of $100 per tree would send a customer running for the door. That's about where I would go in at in my market.

EDIT: But @colb made a good point about hedging. I would plan to give the customer more reduction cuts and fewer heading cuts at that price - and make sure they knew I giving them that - which could make you look more desirable.
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I've mentioned this before, but it's good to bring it in again - you have to decouple in the client's mind the amount of debris generated from the quality of the prune. That's the only way to get the right price point.
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
There’s almost a total of 40 of these trees, all around the same size and it’s all the same thing shaping etc.

What do you guy’s think on pricing something like this, a ballpark figure just to get an idea of what range should be aiming for? I know everyone prices differently.

Like the 2k-3k range, or is that too low...? Should I be in the 5k or above range?

Very wealthy and upscale neighborhood as well.
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Wait for the complaints when they don’t stay that way more than a month or so...
 
It’s hard saying not seeing it, but if one person and a joint and a ladder could bust that out in a few days than 2-3k might be on it. It really depends on what you’re looking for out of a day, and how antsy you are to fill the schedule. If that’s 40 hours of work for one person, I think a better bid would be in the 4-5k range. Good luck if you take it on! I’d stay out of it personally. Very hard to please clients.
 
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