how many horses?

Babberney

Babberney

Location
Austin, TX
Hi, all.

I'm finally getting serious about buying a chipper. I plan to get a Bandit model 65, and I'm pretty sure about that.

What I'm wondering is which motor to buy. I need to decide between a Lambourdini 25HP diesel and CAT 33 HP diesel. The dealer here said tehy have liked the Lambourdini pretty well, but I want to make sure I don't spend the next 10 years wishing I had a little more power (the bane of almost every rental machine I've ever seen).

Anyone know if 25 HP is enough for this machine? I'd like to have the CAT name and warranty, and 33 HP would certainly be plenty, but the price is close to US$2000 extra, so if I don't need that much power, I would strongly consider the smaller engine.

Thanks for your input,

Keith
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
...I want to make sure I don't spend the next 10 years wishing I had a little more power...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you know anyone who ever bought a second chipper that was less powerful than the first? More often, people have a chipper for a while, then realize how it's holding them back. I say go as big as you can reasonably afford, then use the heck out of it!

love
nick
 
I have never heard of Bandit putting a Lambordini(lamborgini?) engine in the model 65.
Did you mean the Deutz diesel?
The 65 is real small. I have rented the 65 with the diesel option. What I noticed right away was it could not chip 6-9" branches. Well it could do up to 6" but not without laboring. It sounds like you want the perfect small chipper that will chip all day normal prunings and some removals.
I like the Gravely cause it will chip with ease this type of material. Everything else can be made into firewood. And it is light enough you can pull it with a pickup truck no problem.
With the Bandit 65 you will find that you are spending alot of time bucking up branches that are 5-6" dia. to make into firewood. that type of branch is really better turned into mulch IMO.
Bandit does make a model 95. This is a great machine (with the Deutz diesel option) but then again it is real heavy for a pickup truck.
Check out Gravely 9" cap. Yanmar 41 Horse diesel. It is a good machine that will not weigh down your truck, will chip just about everything you really need to chip and parts are easy to come by.
http://www.muniquip.com/Products/Gravely/gravely.html
Frans
 
Its Lombardini its an Italian Three cylinder diesel.
Its alright,But the CATS the best bet if you can afford the extra 2 grand.MIGHT IS RIGHT!!!!!

Didj
 
Well, I'm looking at the Bandit brochure right now and it says Lambourdini. It also lists Deutz 30 HP as an option, but the dealer steered me to one of these two (the Lamb. or the CAT, which isn't listed as an option here.) I haven't seen the Gravely machines, but I know what the 6-in Bandit can do and I think it's right for me. As Frans guessed, I do mostly pruning and often don't have anything bigger than 3" in my whole pile at the end of the day.

I also hear teh "bigger is better" argument, and I'm not completely opposed to that way of thinking. One other factor is that I may have a chance to buy a Lambourdini-powered machine at the end of the month, but if I go CAT I will probably have to wait till the end of the year because teh factory is backlogged.

Anyway, thx for the input--keep it coming, anyone who may have something to add.

Keith
 
Does the fact that the Cat motors are backlogged tell you anything? Sounds like they are a much more desirable motor since so many before you are willing to wait rather than buy the Lamb. motor.
 
I'd go with the bigger engine.

This is been my experience with chippers. The manufactures say it will chip let's say 9" material. Sure the machine will chip 9" softwood material with ease, but 9" hardwood is a different story. It will do it sure but at what expense to the machine, you will only get half the life out of the machine if done on a regular basis.

Another reason to go with the bigger more expensive power plant is it will bring a better resale value when it comes time to trade in for a bigger machine. Which I think will come a lot sooner than 10 yrs.

Ax-man
 
Re: how many horses?/ Air cooled vrs. water cooled

One of the nice features about the Deutz is it is air cooled.
Really chippers are stationary equipment and with the diesel engines cooling is very important.
The italian engine may be hard to get parts for. But it should not need parts either. who knows?
I dont rec. you go cheaper you will regret it in the long run. and what is $2000, a couple of jobs? Are you financing? Even if you arent financing it is still what less than 10% of the total cost
lots of decisions- good luck
Frans
 
Re: how many horses?/ Air cooled vrs. water cooled

This engine the Lambourdini are you sure this isn't a miss print in the Bandit Catalogue I can't find anyone who has ever heard of this engine I know the Lombardini is used in a lot of chippers and other industrial machines.IF this is the case in reply to snarf's remarks.Many of the Lombardini engines are air cooled and spares are no problem in the US you can check out www.lombardiniusa.com
If this engine is really a lambourdini then I would love to know who makes it Anyone????????????


Didj
 
No, it's teh Bandits that are backlogged. The dealer already has a machine on order with tthe Lamb. (which may be sold already, negating the argument), but I'd have to place a new order for one with a CAT.

K
 
Re: how many horses?/ Air cooled vrs. water cooled

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

This engine the Lambourdini are you sure this isn't a miss print in the Bandit Catalogue

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I'm only going by what's on the page. You're probably right, it's Lombardini, but anyway it's sure not deutz.

K
 
understanding your chipper

Should you buy a new machine, here is a few more bits of advice:
Make sure you get complete editions of ALL service manuals
1. operators manual (usually included)
2. shop manual for the engine- with this you can order your parts using the original part #s. this way you can go anywhere to get parts and you dont have the dealer say to you "Joe the parts guy will be back on Monday, can you describe the part sos we can make a note for him? Heck with that, you have jobs to do. Not wait around for Joe. Joe may not even show up cause he went partying on sunday night.
Sometimes the dealer cannot get parts as quick as you need. The shop manual will show the location of fuses, temp. sending units, wiring diagrams, etc. etc.
3. Shop manual for the clutch- how to maintain the clutch, etc. etc.The Rockford clutch is a good one that I think the model 95 comes with. Another good one is the Twin Disk.
What type of clutch does this Bandit 65 come with?
Does this Italian engine use parts "off the shelf"?
For example when changing the oil can you go to any auto parts dealer and buy a filter? How about the hydrolic filter? Is this a common spin-on one? The fuel filter is another part commonly replaced. Is it special order?
Can all these maintenance parts #s be cross referenced with common ones? Try it out and see. Get the part # for the oil filter and go down to the auto parts store and see if they can cross reference it. (and buy it cause you will soon need to anyway :)
All this is essential in my opinion. The same goes for bulbs. You will be changing the coolant, can you buy the thermostat anywhere?
How about the belts. You will be buying belts, believe me.
Is the main drive belt to the cutte wheel a mono belt or 4 separate belts. there are different schools of thought on which type is better I like the mono belt, they seem to not allow debri (bits of pine cone for example) to slip between the belt and the pulley as easy.
Being locked into the dealer can be a hassle. I like to be able to be independant of the dealer. Another example is buying knives, the dealer sells my knives for $345.00. I buy TOL (top of the line) knives directly from a knife manufacturer for half of that.
The CAT engine is real common, if you live in, or near agriculture it would be simple to get parts.

The dealer usually hates these types of questions (unless you have a great dealer) But I would make a list and pester the folks and get the answers you need.
Imagine selling your chipper 10 years down the road. Are the parts, engine, chipper real common? It will help if it is.
Nothing like standing around a machine and having people look at it, kick it and say "what the heck kind of engine is that?"
Of course the Italian engine may be one heck of a machine I dont really know.
Oh another question: How long has this dealer been selling this Italian job? Do other dealers sell it as well? What if your dealer packs it up and quits? Whats the backup plan in that case? Should you need to buy a new engine (heaven forbid) can you price shop, or will you have to go to the same dealer
This all may seem overkill but in my experiance (16 years in biz) It can be real hard of have your machine down (even with something as simple as a temp. sending unit) and parts "on the way" for 2-3 weeks. It can really affect your biz adversely.
In alotta ways this chipper purchase will be one of the most defining decisions of your career. I hope my advice and the others advice has/will helped you.
Frans
 
Re: understanding your chipper

Frans,

All good points--thanks for the detailed reply. I planned to get the manuals, but hadn't thought about a lot of the parts issues you brought up. Unfortunately, "my" local dealer recently quit the biz so my closest outlet is San Antonio (an hour or so south), but there's only one company with satellite offices selling bandits in TX. I'll take your advice though and won't let that stop me from pestering the hell out of him.

I'm not getting the answer I wanted (I was really hoping to buy that machine at the end of the month) but I'm leaning hard toward the CAT now. Heck, I've waited three years, what's three more months . . .

k
 
I think 6 inch machines are worthless, I have rented them and are only for homeowners if you chip as well as I have seen you climb it would be too small even if you work by yourself the rest of your career. with a nine inch machine at least you could feed a whole armload of branches but with a six inch machine you will have to feed them one or two at a time. it would be faster to load them in a large high sided trailer even if you have to cut down brush and dump. I had a nine inch vermeer and am so glad I upgraded to a 12 inch Brush Bandit. I got the cat engine because it has A SIX YEAR warranty. It has never clogged and we have gotten 160 hours before the first blade sharpening because we put all dirty wood into a trailer. I encourage you to rent more before making a decision. I prefer my 12 inch even for pruning by myself!!!!
 
Sean,

Thx for the input. I, too, have wasted many hours watching a rental machine catch up. I've also worked with two other local arborists who have adequately-powered 6-in bandits, and it's still slow compared to bigger machines (especially a 12-incher) but quite reasonable when you consider other intangibles. I can shift a 6-in machine slightly with my knee to line it up on a ball--ain't gonna happen with a bigger machine. I can drive across a yard with it and not do quite so much damage to soil structure as with a big machine. I can park it in front of my house while it's attached to my truck--bigger machines block my driveway and threaten to block my neighbor's.

If I were planning to expand my company and hire employees, I'd be looking at big box trucks and 12-inch machines (definitely a rush to see a tree trunk disappear into one of those) but I plan to stick to my current setup--me, myself and a groundie on occasion, with even rarer times that I hire a contract climber for a day or two. Many days I don't have any logs at all to dispose of, and it's rare for me to have stuff bigger than 3". I can make firewood when I have to no more often than I run ito the big stuff.
 
Re: how many horses?--update

well, it turns out I was wrong all this time--the lombardini motor is 28 HP. I think that's plenty for the small machines, and now the only real question is how easily I can buy parts if/when the time comes. The TX dealer started selling these things 1 1/2 yrs. ago when Wisconsin motors came back from the dead 30% more expensive (making the diesel only a couple hundred dollars more). In that time, he says the only part he's needed to buy was an oil cap, which he found at a marine shop in Houston easily. In other words, no real record to look at.

The other development is, I got my quotes in writing finally. The CAT is an extra $3000, not $2000. But, as Squirrell pointed out, that includes a 5or 6 year warranty (i forget exactly). And I can go to Holt/CAT right here in town to get repairs done. Clearly a better option, but $600 per horse seems like a lot for the extra power. I could probably buy six actual horses for $3000--not that they would do me any good, of course.

Anyway, I've been glad to have all my fellow buzzers for input on this--thanks again.

Keith
 
Re: how many horses?--update

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I could probably buy six actual horses for $3000--not that they would do me any good, of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

The price of all horses is the same - 50 cents a pound plus whatever else you can get for them.

I too have worked with a few guys here in town that have smaller machines. They seem to get by well with them. Not for me or for Squirrel, but I think needs vary according to business model. If your focus is pruning and care with the occasional removal, I think you have a good fit. If you do removals almost daily - 12 inch is a minimum.

Good luck - reguardless of what you choose, keep us posted on how it works for you.

Stay safe - Nate
 
Re: how many horses?--update

your welcome, I hope it works for you. You are lucky that you don't need to have workers. what about the bc1000xl I think even it would be better than a 6" and actually shorter and lighter than a 9 or 12 BB. I considered it but went with the heavier duty BB. Vermeer is here in town and robert perkins is retired from BB so service will be all in house for you as it is for me.
 
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