We were working on removing three trees today and we were doing a silver maple that was fairly good size but nothing crazy as our foreman was chunking down the wood into a rigging block he had me run the rope though the GRCS and crank it tight and then walk away. The piece of wood was maybe 10-15 ft long and maybe 16 inch diameter but there was one or two small pieces of brush remaining attached. The piece came up and hinged over and smacked the rope on the way over by the trunk caused the rope to come off the winch or bollard causing the piece to free fall. Lucking it came over towards the trunk before it came loose and that the foreman had enough sense to have everyone out of the immediate area.
GRCS close call
- Thread starter PUClimber
- Start date
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Damn Tyler, that sounds like a close call.
I have never uses one before other than for A.R. training.
Was the load line redirected onto the GRCS and if not could that have prevented it?
Be careful mang.
I have never uses one before other than for A.R. training.
Was the load line redirected onto the GRCS and if not could that have prevented it?
Be careful mang.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
And where did you find that picture of my Dad?
- Location
- Canada
Would this have happened IF you were using a port-a-wrap?
Gerald_Beranek
New member
- Location
- Ft. Bragg, Ca.
I find it difficult to see how hitting the rope could cause the wraps to come off the drum. Unless the rope wasn't threaded through the fair-lead properly.
Is there more to the story? I don't want to make you feel like I'm getting picky about this, and I know extraordinary things happen in this work.
Is there more to the story? I don't want to make you feel like I'm getting picky about this, and I know extraordinary things happen in this work.
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Tyler, I'm glad you are able to write about this, and not laying in a hospital bed.
Did you just let the line go after the hit? I was wondering the same thing as Gerry about the wraps coming off the bollard. That would have to be so violent.
SZ
Did you just let the line go after the hit? I was wondering the same thing as Gerry about the wraps coming off the bollard. That would have to be so violent.
SZ
- Location
- Longmont, CO
I agree with Jerry. Something isn't being communicated.
I'll even go a step further to say there had to be some sort of operator error there.
I would think it would be impossible for the wraps to come off the bollard. I rig with 9/16" stable braid rope all the time. I can get 5 full wraps on the bollard. If some one had a hand on it to let it run fast (or slow) it should run well and never come off. Hands on the rope or not, it cannot just fall off. It would fuse together with the extreme heat created or fuse to the point of failure.
But, you are also talking about a rather large piece of wood. I'd also change out the Harken winch and place the aluminum bollard in it with large of a piece of wood. Because, a log chart would say that Silver Maple at 16" diameter would be about 63lbs. 10' to 15' piece would weight either 630lbs or 945lbs. The GRCS SWL is 2000lbs. So, blocking that size of log is going to get into that SWL real quick once it falls 1 or 2 feet. (Depends on how long the log actually was).
With familiarity of log charts, species, and equipment one should be able to anticipate the right decisions to make in a situation like that.
Sorry for the long reply about this one. I don't want it to sound like a lecture, but, I'm just calling it like I am seeing it. And I'm sure you're aware of the severity of the consequences of the situation as well...
I'll even go a step further to say there had to be some sort of operator error there.
I would think it would be impossible for the wraps to come off the bollard. I rig with 9/16" stable braid rope all the time. I can get 5 full wraps on the bollard. If some one had a hand on it to let it run fast (or slow) it should run well and never come off. Hands on the rope or not, it cannot just fall off. It would fuse together with the extreme heat created or fuse to the point of failure.
But, you are also talking about a rather large piece of wood. I'd also change out the Harken winch and place the aluminum bollard in it with large of a piece of wood. Because, a log chart would say that Silver Maple at 16" diameter would be about 63lbs. 10' to 15' piece would weight either 630lbs or 945lbs. The GRCS SWL is 2000lbs. So, blocking that size of log is going to get into that SWL real quick once it falls 1 or 2 feet. (Depends on how long the log actually was).
With familiarity of log charts, species, and equipment one should be able to anticipate the right decisions to make in a situation like that.
Sorry for the long reply about this one. I don't want it to sound like a lecture, but, I'm just calling it like I am seeing it. And I'm sure you're aware of the severity of the consequences of the situation as well...
i agree, after seeing the test to destruction video, my vote is operator error. these nuts where dropping a 3000# car with 10 foot of slack trying to break the grcs and the hobbs. jerry made the video with frans and ken johnson. if set up right there is no way that rope came off the winch. harken wouldn't be in business if that could happen on a properly set up winch. sounds like the guy didn't have enough wraps and the log jerked the rope out of his hands.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
FWIW. I think Zimmerman's crazy avatar photos have been week lately. Jeff's avatar photo takes the cake!
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
[ QUOTE ]
I find it difficult to see how hitting the rope could cause the wraps to come off the drum. Unless the rope wasn't threaded through the fair-lead properly.
Is there more to the story? I don't want to make you feel like I'm getting picky about this, and I know extraordinary things happen in this work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Something smells fishy? There has to be more to the story. Where you using the winch or the bollard? You mention both in your post. The bollard is the 4" drum that doesn't turn.
The winch is the sailboat device with the jaws that prevent the rope from coming out.
When you are removing logs above the block (drop hitching), the bollard is supposed to be used. A 16" silver maple log weighs 63 pounds per 1 foot section. Multiply that times the length (63 X 15 = 945). If the lowering line was snubbed off, it easily generated 7 times the load (7 X 945 = 6,615 pounds) of force, drastically overloading what the GRCS was designed for.
If the winch WAS used, you might want to check it for internal damage.
It's imperative to know the limitations of your equipment.
Glad the climber asked youse guys to stand clear. Also extremely glad you were not hurt Tyler. It's 1 of those "No damage done, except to the underwear."
I find it difficult to see how hitting the rope could cause the wraps to come off the drum. Unless the rope wasn't threaded through the fair-lead properly.
Is there more to the story? I don't want to make you feel like I'm getting picky about this, and I know extraordinary things happen in this work.
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Something smells fishy? There has to be more to the story. Where you using the winch or the bollard? You mention both in your post. The bollard is the 4" drum that doesn't turn.
The winch is the sailboat device with the jaws that prevent the rope from coming out.
When you are removing logs above the block (drop hitching), the bollard is supposed to be used. A 16" silver maple log weighs 63 pounds per 1 foot section. Multiply that times the length (63 X 15 = 945). If the lowering line was snubbed off, it easily generated 7 times the load (7 X 945 = 6,615 pounds) of force, drastically overloading what the GRCS was designed for.
If the winch WAS used, you might want to check it for internal damage.
It's imperative to know the limitations of your equipment.
Glad the climber asked youse guys to stand clear. Also extremely glad you were not hurt Tyler. It's 1 of those "No damage done, except to the underwear."
We were using the winch and I had the rope cranked down and it was in the piece above directs the line into the winch. I had it wrapped and run through like I was taught and cranked it down. I was not holding on to the rope at all. No one was holding on to it. It was there at the base of the tree with the rope locking into it as if you were cranking it tight. It was not though the pig tail. I as long as no one was anywhere near it. It was kind of hard to get very far away to hold the rope and that's why it was cranked tight with no one underneath. It was in a tight spot in the center of the drive with thick bushes all around you could get maybe 5-6 ft away without getting hit with thorns from the bushes. It all happened so quickly when the branch hit. It came over nice and then swung down hit the rope and popped off the winch.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
By this description: having it in the fair lead and then locked off in the self-tailer would show there was nothing wrong with the usage.
Then, I'd say it was coincidence that the log hit the rope in a weird/forceful way. Was the spar perfectly straight? Or, did it have a bend in it? I'm wondering if it had a bend it, could the rope and spar could create a bow & arrow like situation? (See Picture).
Then, I'd say it was coincidence that the log hit the rope in a weird/forceful way. Was the spar perfectly straight? Or, did it have a bend in it? I'm wondering if it had a bend it, could the rope and spar could create a bow & arrow like situation? (See Picture).
Attachments
Gerald_Beranek
New member
- Location
- Ft. Bragg, Ca.
Stranger things have happened I guess.
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
Sounds like it was overloaded. What diameter was the lowering line?
Thank you Tyler, you're awesome.
Thank you Tyler, you're awesome.
Tony
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Lancaster, PA
Overloaded or you need new springs in the tailer.
Tony
Tony
Jamin there was two limbs still left on the piece that was coming down. The limbs were 2-3 inches in diameter and about 10ft roughly. This is nothing exact. So when it came over like in Jamins picture the limbs smacked the rope and as in the picture there was a bend to the tree.
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