Future of the ITCC

Mahk_Adams

Mahk_Adams

Location
Bloomington, Indiana
Just looking for some thoughts, especially in light of some of the recent threads.

Are things working? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the ITCC? Do we need changes? How can we make this event even better than it already is?

What should the primary goals be for this event? What should we see as a vision for the future of this event? What strategies could help get the ITCC where we would like to see it?

What are the topics that you feel are the most important to the future of ITCC?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Please feel free to give positive or negative comments, but keep it constructive--don't point fingers and don't assess blame.
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Thanks!
 
I think that we need some big time sponsers.... like the Stihl timber sports.... we could get more air time, and that would turn into more awareness for the consumer and the industry


The more we can show good practices, the closer we can be to having them repeted in the field
 
I can't agree more with Rob.


I think that with the right kind of money and coverage, our ITCC could garner some of the attention of the general public.

As it is, when I tell people that there are tree climbing championships, they immediately say "like the timbersports on TV?"

It's not that the people want to see guys and girls spiking up and down poles, and racing chainsaws through logs, it's just what they have been conditioned to think regarding tree climbing.

There is big money in arboriculture, there could be more sponsorship and money coming in to get the cable networks involved in spreading the good word.

I like the idea of an open forum for taking a hard look at the ITCC and seeing if it could be better, Mahk. I have been to the last 4 ITCCs and I have always been impressed with how well they are run. I think the real thing missing is the interest from the general public and TV cameras. We have a dynamic and unique product, it just needs an outlet, or an amplifier.
 
Well it would take some promotions and people like Mark using his connections with stihl and trying to get into something or even get with one of the other saw manufacturers and suggest it. To make it as big as the stihl timbersports I think you'd have to do more bigger comps throughout the year. Have like a points system or something. It could be done and it might help things get into the mainstream but would that be going away from the roots of the Jamboree? I understand that it'd open up to the public more as far as getting the stereo type of guys with spikes from the stihl timber sports. It's a good idea but I guess how far do you want to take it and how far you'd want to get away from the tradition?
 
tradition is great, but times are changing.... it was a tradition to top trees, and awareness has started to change that. think how much the consumer(and all of the hacks out there) would learn by just watching 10 minutes of a comp.

I say remember your roots, but if there is a chance to make your industry(and yourself) better....... take it!
 
The TCC should always reflect as closely as possible the day to day work of an arborist. Already the TCC is very synthesized compared to a routine job. When was the last time anyone every had to set a throwline into an already pruned tree? Not very often I bet...unless something was forgotten on the first time in the tree. Was there an access line set in the tree to make AR more fluid? How many competitors leave an access line in the tree to make an AR quicker even though you've gotten used to having one set in comp?

If making the TCC more mainstream means making it look like the Timbersports comp I'm not too excited about that. How much of the TS comp looks like day to day logging?

The next level of TCC could have a component of pruning and rigging. Instead of just dinging bells make sure that the climber can actually make a collar cut. When I taught arbo classes I developed a very simple and quick exam to test whether the students could identify different cuts and make proper cuts. The scoring was quick and simple too.

Since many climbers in the Masters Challenge are accessing the tree using SRT I'd like to see the option available to SRT the Footlock event. This could be setup as a Grand Prix start. The climber starts the event wearing only the full body harness. Then they put on their gear and ascending system. If they want to put on a Ropewalker or an ascending loop, their choice. Each has advantages over the other. mechanical devices are being used in other events it makes sense to consider them for FL.
 
Dee's just given me instructions for a three line reply...
err...well thats nearly two......aghhh!...I just can't do it!
Yo, Im with brother Tom!
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Guys,

This is going to be a controversial statement.

Having attented tree climbing comps with non arb friends and family, I would have to say that apart from the footlock and speed climb they are not great spectator events.

We climbers know and understand exactly what is going on but the public just see a bunch of guys shouting nonsense and moving randomly around a tree which is normally in leaf so vision is obscured and this makes the Master's climb a bizarre spectacle unless you are a climber.

This is where the issue of sponsorship and TV coverage becomes an issue, but to change the event to suit the TV audience, TCCs would change beyond all recognition and probably become pointless in relation to improving safety and efficiency in the industry, which was the whole reason they were set up in the first place.

Think about it.....if TCCs were to be broadcast on TV we would ahve to introduce new events such as the tree jump, where the climber has to unclip and jump 40 ft from one tree to another unaided with no back up.

Or the spiderman, where the climber has to descend upside down from 80ft at breakneck speed into a huge swimming pool with a hula hoop to aim for.

It's the trees that are used in the comp that make all the difference. If the non arb spectator can see the action they will then begin to understand the skills.

Tom - Great carabiner april fools joke at Arboristsite
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You guys make some good points. The TCC needs to reflect daily work. Pruning and Rigging sounds interesting, and the SRT. I think another good idea would be to incorporate the head-to-head footlock into local chapters not just the international. If these ideas come to be, the climb might have to be a two day thing.

Sponsorship is a tricky issue. If it could be done in the right way, more publicity could be a really good thing. True, the TCCs aren't that exciting for people who aren't somewhat acclimated to the industry, but with a little creative editing, a half-hour time slot could easily be filled. With some of the crap thats on tv now an arborist climing competition might be a breath of fresh air for some people.

I think that the more eyes we have watching our comps the better. Maybe (and this might be a long shot) someday we could hope to have some of our events become olmympic events. Does anyone know what that might take?

Also, lets not let our gadgets and gizmos outweigh our climbing strength, stamina, ability and fluidity. New techniques and equipment are popping up every day. Lets just make sure that what is being used is actually applicable to the industry and not a run around.
One thing is for sure though, no matter what changes are or arent made it will be impossible to satisfy everyone.

No matter how competitive we get, try not to forget that this is all for fun, fellowship, and advancement of the industry.
 
Here are some comments that lend themselves to the discussion:

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=52431&Main=48465#Post52431

Ultimately, I believe we have a choice:

1. The 'comp' is by arborists for arborists, to encourage best practice. A peer measure of excellence. This of itself, will lead to professionalism within the industry, which will lead to a better understanding and appreciation by the public (why are we trying to encourage a spectator sport which encourages climbers to look cool and be a little reckless, rather than establishing sound practice and using the comps to encourage good practice amongst us?)

2. The 'Comp' is for spectators who don't understand the industry, remains an extreme sport (there have been deaths and serious incidents that will re-occur without more focus, training, standards and guidance), encourages sponsors and evolves into general speed events and glory hunting by competitors and spectators alike. This is at odds with industry best practice, and rewards the behaviour that is not really acceptable on a work site. This has a negative impact on the industry and will glorify a few individuals who aren't necessarily good arborists, for sponsors to reap the rewards?

Choice 1 is what our industry needs long term.

Hey, what do I know?
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I love the comps because they are great fun and I learn a huge amount. This outweighs the slight guilt I have of treating trees like rodeo bulls. I know that thirty climbers moving through a tree competing for the gold is rough on the tree. At this point I feel that the benefits of education and better tree care in general outweigh the costs to that individual tree yet there is a balance there to be respected.
Quite feasibly there could evolve a tree climbing circuit much like rodeo. Then, there would be a real difference between the cowboy and the rodeo cowboy. Although I must admit that making money without having to actuually do anything in the tree but ring a couple of bells would be very apealing. Always looking for ways to make a living and climb trees at the same time.

I just dont really like that overall thought to much.

I dont know how you could have a pruning competition. There are only so many branches on a tree. Every branch collar is slightly different, some are easy and some are pretty evasive. I guess though that by labeling it a competition you could get people to come out, whereas if you labeled it a class, most people will opt to stay home and drink beer.

Rigging competition as well. You couldnt just cut down and rig out trees just for the kicks of it and the possibilty of winning a gallon of bar oil and a Husqvarna visor. Gear would be wierd as well. Rigging is so gear and tool intensive that it could devolve into a gear comp.

We have a tendacy in this country to turn absolutely everything into a competition. You know they have Yoga competitions nowdays?

I think the biggest problem with the TCC as a spectator sport is that it is hard on the neck.
 
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I dont know how you could have a pruning competition. There are only so many branches on a tree. Every branch collar is slightly different, some are easy and some are pretty evasive. I guess though that by labeling it a competition you could get people to come out, whereas if you labeled it a class, most people will opt to stay home and drink beer.

Rigging competition as well. You couldnt just cut down and rig out trees just for the kicks of it and the possibilty of winning a gallon of bar oil and a Husqvarna visor. Gear would be wierd as well. Rigging is so gear and tool intensive that it could devolve into a gear comp.

We have a tendacy in this country to turn absolutely everything into a competition. You know they have Yoga competitions nowdays?

I think the biggest problem with the TCC as a spectator sport is that it is hard on the neck.

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Nice post treebing.

Even as a work based competition, I accept of course that it will always be sythesised. But there are more realistic ways of being synthesised:

Pruning - a 3 foot section of Pine (or whatever forest tree is regionally available) could be secured to a frame. It has 1 foot stubs, three must be pruned with handsaw.

Rigging - a chunk of wood is suspended out along a branch, attached to a rigging rope, through a pulley and anchored through a porta wrap (whatever). It has a spinnaker release snap tied to a release line. There is a target on the ground. The section is released and the competitor has to control the swing through rope slippage to hit the target. If s/he hits it with no swing or bouncing out of the ring, s/he gets the biggest carrot! (Tom Dunlap told me he had run this event - If I remember correctly, Riggs was the master at it).

Chainsaw skills - a three foot section can be secured in a frame and pre-tensioned (15" diameter). The climber comes down from the tree wearing chainsaw boots and pants (like we do every day in real life), fires up the saw with pre-use checks like at work, and does the felling cuts. The pretension will bring it over. Pointed on saw handling, stance and accurate cuts. Don't want to compete in chanisaw trousers? Fine, but those that wear them throughout the climb get more points to out weigh a fast naked climb and changeover to saw pants for the cut.

Then there is the Ascent event Tom mentions and more.

All easily do-able, and much more educational. Even the spectators can appreciate those skills more than getting just neck ache.

Yoga competitions - what is the world coming to???
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I'll take some time to outline the pruning competition/test that I used in school. After the students were done I could grade 15 tests in less than a half hour. Stay tuned...

Great memory! Riggs nailed the log drop. There are plenty of other options that could be configured too.

If the TCC's become rodeo/Logging Sports type events with sponsorship then there will be the expectation that there are professional judges with qualifications. As it is, we're all unpaid volunteers. The staff get different shirts that's all...
 
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Guys,

a tree which is normally in leaf so vision is obscured and this makes the Master's climb a bizarre spectacle unless you are a climber. THIS COULD BE DEALT WITH PROPER CAMERA ANGLES

but to change the event to suit the TV audience, TCCs would change beyond all recognition and probably become pointless in relation to improving safety and efficiency in the industry, which was the whole reason they were set up in the first place. HOW WOULD IT HAVE TO CHANGE TO APPEAL TO TV AUDIECES?



It's the trees that are used in the comp that make all the difference. If the non arb spectator can see the action they will then begin to understand the skills.THEREFOR FOCUS ON THE TREES AND WHY THE PEOPLE ARE IN THEM



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Great discussion, excellent comments by all. Quoting Jim Skiers in ISA Perspectives Year in Review (Feb 07) " Our public relations program generated a readeship of more than 91 million, including a front-page story in The Wall Street Journal on what has become the premier event at ISA's annual conference- the ITCC". A profound statement. Big prizes, big crowds, lots of advertising. TCC's need to generate larger crowds- tree companies need to get involved. The event needs a "big time for profit promoter". The event needs to be more spectator friendly. It is slow and spread out typically. There are no shortages of characters, excitement, and skilled professionals showcaseing their talents. TV could film it and edit for content, build stories, make it at least as good as the Hot Dog Eating contest which garners time(2hrs!) each year on ESPN. It is made for spectators if it is sped up, condensed, or has additional elements like head-to -head footlock, big shot comp, log carries etc. I feel the head-to-head should be standard at all comps. Rob suggested to have it in the down time pre Masters Challenge. Sponsor aren't that hard to find, and they will be comming out of the woodwork if the event is televised and they can plaster their banners on the trees. I am not internet savy- but I would wager that someone coule figure out a pod cast, youtube broadcast, or somenthing of the like. We need to create a repository for all of the 30 second to 6 minute blips that we have all been a part of for local TV at TCC's and put together a demo video to give to ESPN and the likes. I am sure there are many minutes of footage out there. People build vacations aroung Timbersports, 4 wheeler races, mule pulls, why not a TCC. Do any Buzzers know any Timbersport execs or Tv people?
 
Is it a tree workers competiton you want or a tree climbers competiton or both ? The future of the ITCC is simple , hold onto your chair ,MONEY. You get what you pay for , a non- profit event that has hundreds of volunteers across the globe . If it isn't broke don't fix it , unless you got the tools you need($$) .
Head to head footlocking , like A March Madness Bracket , that would be cool . Seedings can get based from the time at the chapter level.
 
As a newbie to competitions, I think they're pretty well set up. However, I wish the comps used more complex sinarios. LIke the AR for example... in the southern chapter TCC, the dummy only had to be lowered straight down. So people pretty much just had to recite a routine. Routines are good for keeping people calm in an emergency, but I feel that alot could be added to the event if more time was allowed and more complex sinarios were given. Like put the dummy out on a limb, where as, the rescuer has to set up a system to control alot of horizontal movement.
Overall, I feel this way about most of the events, and I think adding more strategy would only add to the experience. I know that when I'm working, I'm not into the speedy gonzales thing. I like things to be smooth, and the more control a worker has, the safer and more fun the job is, if you ask me.
 
Its funny that there is a differenciation between worker and climber and it got me to thinking about what I would consider myself. I realized that I am a tree climber first, I work in trees because it pays me to be a climber. I would rather not be a tree worker. There are those inconvenient bills. But its also funny because I dont know if I would just climb trees for fun if I didnt get paid. I mean for sure every know and again, but there really is no point in doing the fun stuff of climbing trees if there is not a mission to accomplish while aloft. Why would you walk out to the tip of a branch just for the fun of it? The goal in rock climbing is to get to the top. period nice and simple. In trees, getting to the top is the easy part, there has to be goals created. climber or worker. Its kind of nice how that works itself out.
 
What about a head to head belayed speedclimb? We need to add more events, not necessarily in addition to the preliminarys. Keep the action going so spectators have no room to get bored. It is for the fun of it. I enjoy training with my partners. I also enjoy taking my family to competitions, seeing my friends, learning new techniques, and pushing myself to do better each time. It is a work/play thing for me. The better I get at competing, the better I perform at work. The better I am at work, the more play time I get. Getting to the top is the ultimate goal for a TCC competitor. We need to push for TV time, a more organized attack by the non_profit non-paid volunteers to get the word out. And we need long term commitments from Big time sponsors.
 
Have to think on the flip side as well. The more exposure we get, the more the consumers will expect of us. Say a customer saw how fast you were on TV and then had hired you. It wouldn't take long for him/her to see that he isn't getting what he thought. And in the customers eyes this wouldn't make sence. We will climb are butt off and be super fast for a comp. making no money but we show up to a job and settle back down. Though I think we do need more exposure we just have to be careful as to how we go about doing it.
 
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