Fusion
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As president, Jimmy Carter cancelled US research on Fusion.
Shame !
Shame !
Last edited:
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Yesterday I heard several articles about various aspects of fusion.
One was given with a bit of tongue in cheek optimism. A nuclear researcher was asked for input about how much this discovery moved us towards fusion as a reality. He chuckled and said that twenty years ago some other discovery was made and the scientific consensus was that the reality of fusion was twenty years closer. At each discovery point fusion has always remained the same twenty year distant.
An interesting outlook. LOL
One was given with a bit of tongue in cheek optimism. A nuclear researcher was asked for input about how much this discovery moved us towards fusion as a reality. He chuckled and said that twenty years ago some other discovery was made and the scientific consensus was that the reality of fusion was twenty years closer. At each discovery point fusion has always remained the same twenty year distant.
An interesting outlook. LOL
Helmstein
Participating member
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- Berkshire county
That guy in the beginning is a cocky son of a gun! Haha
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
I truly hope that this latest discovery shortens our wait for fusion to less than 20 years.
If I understand the Star Trek mythology Gene Roddenberry based the ST world on the invention of clean, cheap energy. This allowed Earth society to break free of the haves and have nots. A noble mythology. If fusion is the initiator of this social change will humans be willing to change?
If I understand the Star Trek mythology Gene Roddenberry based the ST world on the invention of clean, cheap energy. This allowed Earth society to break free of the haves and have nots. A noble mythology. If fusion is the initiator of this social change will humans be willing to change?
ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
Why would they do that instead of making trillions off of selling the new technology? They, as a corporation, exist to make money...if that is in fusion, that is what they'll do.
ATH
Been here much more than a while
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- Findlay, Ohio
I'm not sure anyone is saying this has brought fusion-based electrical power closer than the proverbial 20 years.
This is just another tiny step in many, many, many step process. Even the headlines are misleading...the last line of the article linked by @Aerial Traveler :
"And although the experiment got more energy out than the laser put in, this did not include the energy needed to make the lasers work - which was far greater than the amount of energy the hydrogen produced." So there was still a net loss of energy. Read elsewhere that to produce the 2MJ reaction, it took 300MJ to power the lasers.
Also not mentioned...even it they did have a sustainable reaction (they don't...and cannot from lasers heating to EXTREME temperatures) that was net positive (it wasn't), there still isn't a way to make that type of reaction provide electricity...that reaction has to happen in a vacuum. Can't take the heat out to, for example, spin a turbine.
Next, it is not scalable... The target material is encased in diamond. It is the only material that is transparent to the correct wavelengths of light and strong enough to stand up to the pumping long enough for inertial confinement to occur.
It is a step, which is good. But that is why I don't think this brings fusion onto the grid in the next 20 years.
Pinhead Squirrel
Participating member
- Location
- Limb moon walking
Well ... Well.. well .. I guess I should drop a needle on this good ol' wax I guess ... 
Congratulations!
U. S. A. !!! U. S. A.!!! U. S. A.!!!
We got the Power !
Congratulations!U. S. A. !!! U. S. A.!!! U. S. A.!!!
We got the Power !
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Pinhead Squirrel
Participating member
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- Limb moon walking
A lots of net loss of energy ...
Sure ... But We need that FIRE !!
Sure ... But We need that FIRE !!
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RyanCafferky
Been here a while
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- Hood River, Oregon
Humans don’t change. And our culture will never break free of the cycle of haves and have nots. If humans did one thing we could have all the resources we need to deal with healthcare, energy, housing, ect. Stop fighting, stop endless wars, stop spending trillions on militaries and nukes. But that will never happen. An important book for me was Chomsky’s “Hegenony or Survival”. It basically laid out many times and ways that the US imperialist model to control everything militarily and politically has been and is done in a way antithetical to human life and survival. Essentially, if we can’t control everything we are ready to burn the whole place down.
Until humans can get to a place of cooperation and stop glorifying excess, greed, and power, and instead shift to a global society valuing humility, restraint, and peace I think our trajectory will not be to a higher plane no matter what scientific discoveries are made. Science isn’t what is holding society and humans from having a better existence. Human nature is.
- Location
- Chardon, OH
I was hoping, when this thread started, that it would be more technical & less political.
When we get Fusion, in 20 – 30 years, basically we (the world) have “free energy”.
National debts could disappear.
There will not be individual patents. The research is a VERY large consortium of multi-nationals.
I won't be here, but you will reap the benefits !
I quit.
When we get Fusion, in 20 – 30 years, basically we (the world) have “free energy”.
National debts could disappear.
There will not be individual patents. The research is a VERY large consortium of multi-nationals.
I won't be here, but you will reap the benefits !
I quit.
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TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
I see fusion as a clean energy source.
But to think the technology will be cheap is a delusion, IMO.
The cost of not having clean energy sources is going to be astronomical, not even measurable in dollars.
But to think the technology will be cheap is a delusion, IMO.
The cost of not having clean energy sources is going to be astronomical, not even measurable in dollars.
Pinhead Squirrel
Participating member
- Location
- Limb moon walking
And China quietly sit and wait for 100 years or more even to just copy everything from us ....to steal our inventions without spending any development costs ....
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ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
There have been some fusion breakthroughs in China. I'm not saying they don't steal technology or that they are the world leaders here...but they are working on it too.
www.google.com
Chinese scientists hail ‘important step’ towards nuclear fusion
Researchers working on the HL-2M reactor in Sichuan say they have generated enough power to meet two key requirements for a working reactor.
www.google.com
ATH
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Findlay, Ohio
It will never be free energy. I think the big thing we need.from it is clean!
A few costs:
Tritium isn't exactly abundant. One proposal I've seen is mining it from the moon.
Another source ot tritium: fission reactors. That brings up another point... these offer a great source of clean (relatively speaking) energy that is ready NOW! Why isn't that more developed? I know you don't want this a political thread so I won't attempt to answer it.... because there is no other answer.
Science | AAAS
www.science.org
Once the reaction is started, sustained, fueled, etc...the power still needs to be distributed. Trees still need pruned away from wires. There will need to be MASSIVE upgrades to powe grids if any significant portion of the US motor fleet is replaced with electric vehicles. So there is still huge costs to bear for that upgrade...both economic and environmental. Think about the aluminum that will be needed. I couldn't find it quickly again, but i read an article a few months ago that suggested a transition to electric vehicles would require 50% of all aluminum currently in circulation for the power grid. Yes, it is abundant...but extraction isn't pretty.
Here is one article I did find:
Mineral requirements for clean energy transitions – The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions – Analysis - IEA
The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.
www.iea.org
Pinhead Squirrel
Participating member
- Location
- Limb moon walking
And China quietly sit and wait for 100 years or more to just copy everything from us
Like AAA batteries size enough for 5 states wide supply of power ?
I wonder how much tritium do you need to operate normally ? Well, it's not even reached to that levels but I mean it's creates massive energies from such a small quantities of tritium fission.It will never be free energy. I think the big thing we need.from it is clean!
A few costs:
Tritium isn't exactly abundant. One proposal I've seen is mining it from the moon.
Another source ot tritium: fission reactors. That brings up another point... these offer a great source of clean (relatively speaking) energy that is ready NOW! Why isn't that more developed? I know you don't want this a political thread so I won't attempt to answer it.... because there is no other answer.
Science | AAAS
Once the reaction is started, sustained, fueled, etc...the power still needs to be distributed. Trees still need pruned away from wires. There will need to be MASSIVE upgrades to powe grids if any significant portion of the US motor fleet is replaced with electric vehicles. So there is still huge costs to bear for that upgrade...both economic and environmental. Think about the aluminum that will be needed. I couldn't find it quickly again, but i read an article a few months ago that suggested a transition to electric vehicles would require 50% of all aluminum currently in circulation for the power grid. Yes, it is abundant...but extraction isn't pretty.
Here is one article I did find:
Mineral requirements for clean energy transitions – The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions – Analysis - IEA
The Role of Critical Minerals in Clean Energy Transitions - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.
Like AAA batteries size enough for 5 states wide supply of power ?
- Location
- Chardon, OH
In fusion reactors, a 'breeding blanket' made of lithium is placed on the walls of the reactor, as lithium, when exposed to energetic neutrons, will produce tritium.
tritium fusion reactor - Yahoo Search Results
search.yahoo.com
Pinhead Squirrel
Participating member
- Location
- Limb moon walking
Thank you . So current nuclear plants are capable to create those ?In fusion reactors, a 'breeding blanket' made of lithium is placed on the walls of the reactor, as lithium, when exposed to energetic neutrons, will produce tritium.
tritium fusion reactor - Yahoo Search Results
Reach
Been here much more than a while
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- Atglen, PA
That’s interesting, I had no idea that lithium could produce tritium. Nuclear physics is fascinating, and I understand almost none of it. I do enjoy a little reading on quantum physics though, that really gets fascinating.In fusion reactors, a 'breeding blanket' made of lithium is placed on the walls of the reactor, as lithium, when exposed to energetic neutrons, will produce tritium.
tritium fusion reactor - Yahoo Search Results
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