Friction Managment

Xman have you tested Xring temps after extreme rigging by chance ? I love my xrings by the way and was curious about the configuration in tree buzz preview pic above in this thread. Are those long slings with ring spliced onto each end .? I have the large rig and ring from Treestuff which is great ,but at 5 feet long I need more sling legnth quite often.
 
A-aron,
Yes. Did some really fun heat testing. Plus just working with them for so long teaches a person things too.
Highest temps we got with inferred thermometer were somewhere around 115-120 degrees F, I think. I'd have to review the video footage again to know the exact temp.
But HERE is what is more important to know. When running through the rings (testing) to get them THAT warm, it is getting the lowering device much hotter than the rings.

Not everyone uses a Hobbs and GRCS like we do, so we used a large stainless steel porta wrap instead for the heat testing.

Like I said, the ring was only around 115-120 degrees, but the porta-wrap was rolling off smoke and glazed the rigging rope to do that. That was using one of the Large 28x20 rings.

So, if you are ever running the rope fast enough and with enough weight to get the rings too hot, you will be even way hotter on most of your lowering devices.

The bigger the ring and more rings, the less heat build up as well.

On those big red oak logs, like from the picture above........... the two beast rings were only slightly warm after each log lowered.

No components got too hot until the largest log, the 3,700 lb log. The rings never got hot of course (only warm, likely 100 degrees F), the Hobbs with it's incredibly thick drum never got hot, but the aluminum bollard on the grcs frame is thinner aluminum and IT had a small ribbon of melted rope cover on it. It only happened on the largest log. The log shown above in the thread was NOT the largest log.
Maybe I can put some text across the largest log picture and post it as well. (I don't want to take away from a magazine article that will be coming out in ArbClimber).

hope this all reads well enough, no time to read over it, gotta get to work
 
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Thanks X ..I like the idea of putting the heat from friction dispersed throughout the whole rigging system not just on the lowering device that's why I've been almost religiously calling for rings in the tree for top down rigging since owning some.For fast heavy runs on a hot day a little ice bag from the cooler jammed in the back of lowering device could help glazing for a few minutes until it melts then the drinks get warm and guys start bitching :baba:lol,just gettin at I understand heat kills. Thanks again for xrings and your input on the buzz.. I haven't been buzzing that long, but learn much here often, I have been roping and rigging since I was a young kid ,now I'm an older kid who had to break a few rigging points to figure it out the hard way and I'm glad I can talk about it now:confused: and progressed my rigging for safety first ,for I know it took a few awakenings to learn . If through better techniques and tools guys can learn from tree buzz or others with experience and not have an accident for any reason ,not just poor rigging scenarios gone wrong or what ever the case, It is a great accomplishment for the industry. That said and going off track a bit an getting back on it now . I firmly believe Xriggings rings make rigging safer and easier on equipmant and people for the fact that they readily gobble up heat by causing just enough friction and disperse it out quickly, not putting it all on lowering device. Kind of a long winded way to say big (y) for the xring rigging for friction management. How about the slings in pic ..long slings with beasts on each end ,timber hitched or ..??
 
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Aaron, those are some sling(s) from our 2015 line-up at Xtreme Arborist Supply. I don't want to talk about the configuration until we have plenty of them spliced up in stock and ready to go. And the real web-stie up and functional. Sorry.

I wrote you as A-aron earlier due to this funny video. (my wife works in the school system and names from the inner city are often quite unique, so this video is particularly funny for teachers). Aaron is one of the names the teacher messes up. Sorry for the derail.

 
The heat dispersal concept is one that makes these an attractive element in a rigging system. I wonder if anyone has looked at heating of a block used with similar weights? Merely as comparison and out of curiosity.
 
treehumper, adding friction within the TOP of the tree is THE really important part. (but you're kinda thinking the same way, but with heat. We need friction for a single person to be able to lower and control weights. Why have the friction all at the bottom of the tree and magnify the force on the rigging point by using a pulley/block? it makes no sense. Adding friction to the rigging points lessens the forces put on the rigging points; that's what I wrote my article about, coming out in ArbClimber magazine and I'll see if it's okay to publish on the Buzz after the magazine comes out.
 
I know what you mean T.H. I think heats generated as it loads rope skids across sheave while loading then catching it begins to turn and produces less at block and more on the lower device ..wonder if its been tested ..another good reason to run two ropes for catching big loads so they share the stress for better friction management.
 
i would guess that the heat generated in a block will be negligible purely because how low friction it is. The only heat associated with it would be the sheave itself heating up spinning on its axle, and that heat buildup would depend on if its on a bushing or bearing, as well as how much grime and dirt might be in the sheave as well. But even with all that taken into account id have to feel there would be no more than a single digit increase in temperature on a clean freely spinning block. Relate that to a block that might have had a log smash it or the axle doesn't let the sheave spin freely then you essentially have a ring the diameter of the sheave and you get the dynamic friction forces and heat build up associated with it.

-Steven
 
theXman said:
treehumper, adding friction within the TOP of the tree is THE really important part. (but you're kinda thinking the same way, but with heat. We need friction for a single person to be able to lower and control weights. Why have the friction all at the bottom of the tree and magnify the force on the rigging point by using a pulley/block? it makes no sense. Adding friction to the rigging points lessens the forces put on the rigging points; that's what I wrote my article about, coming out in ArbClimber magazine and I'll see if it's okay to publish on the Buzz after the magazine comes out.
Click to expand...

This goes hand in hand with SRT climbing systems when using a base tie vs. a canopy anchor...to a point. The important thing to keep in mind is that what works on paper without accounting for all other variables at play does not always apply to life in the canopy. The friction created from certain rope over a certain union of a certain species is a moving target, but safe to say that friction at a union reduces the load applied.

I'm not trying to get off topic, in fact trying to stay on it with something that may ring a bell for some people.

Thanks for writing that post. I look forward to your article and what else is to follow.
 
Brings up a thought for myself .. I climbed/ pruned a row of super thick never maintained 50 foot white pines swinging and redirecting to the top of each one as I went along started with a base anchor and left plenty of tail to throw over the next tree and so on down the line. It was great for the climb managing my friction and positioning ,but try to pull that rope through 6 or maybe more tree tops natural unions when all done . Hell no buddy . Get two guys on it pulling and it finally started to move slowly through . p.I.a ..right to the rope wash bag felt like it was ruined after that climb . I would've liked to use receivable redirect s just thought they would get jammed up coming through the thickness as these trees were Gnarley. Should a charged more for that job (like I don't say that all the time;))and priced in a new climb line.
Adding the question: I guess I'm looking for an answer if there's any tricks to solve the issue of getting through ,maybe alternating ropes as you go through as to not run one rope over too many trees , Any other ideas?
 
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Aaron Cipolletti said:
Brings up a thought for myself .. I climbed/ pruned a row of super thick never maintained 50 foot white pines swinging and redirecting to the top of each one as I went along started with a base anchor and left plenty of tail to throw over the next tree and so on down the line. It was great for the climb managing my friction and positioning ,but try to pull that rope through 6 or maybe more tree tops natural unions when all done . Hell no buddy . Get two guys on it pulling and it finally started to move slowly through . p.I.a ..right to the rope wash bag felt like it was ruined after that climb . I would've liked to use receivable redirect s just thought they would get jammed up coming through the thickness as these trees were Gnarley. Should a charged more for that job (like I don't say that all the time;))and priced in a new climb line.
Adding the question: I guess I'm looking for an answer if there's any tricks to solve the issue of getting through ,maybe alternating ropes as you go through as to not run one rope over too many trees , Any other ideas?
Click to expand...

Do you re tie in each tree? Not sure about srt but I climb the 1st drt but you can use set or what ever you like. Swing to the next pruning the side you come to first on your way up then retie and go down pruning the far side and repeat. I use a ring to ring friction saver reinstalled in each tree. I find when you are straight across tie in point to tie in point that it retrives fairly well as you aren't pulling down through all the branches. That's the best way I find to do rows of conifers.

I'm not sure how that would work with srt going through the numerous crowns, maybe someone else could chime in from an srt point of view.

This I guess is a rope management and climbing style more than any friction help so sorry if I drifted off point.
 
KevinS said:
Do you re tie in each tree? Not sure about srt but I climb the 1st drt but you can use set or what ever you like. Swing to the next pruning the side you come to first on your way up then retie and go down pruning the far side and repeat. I use a ring to ring friction saver reinstalled in each tree. I find when you are straight across tie in point to tie in point that it retrives fairly well as you aren't pulling down through all the branches. That's the best way I find to do rows of conifers.

I'm not sure how that would work with srt go

This I guess is a rope management and climbing style more than any friction help so sorry if I drifted off point.
Click to expand...
I drifted off point for this thread my question was more of a rope management question. I just climb through the tree pruning as I go up anything that needs it then put my climb line over the new point and come down the other side of trunk pruning on that side . Swing to the next tree and repeat , so I thread my climb line through lots of trees because it seems fluid while doing it compared to resetting new tip every time , but when I'm done and trying to pull that line out when its over some trees and redirects in them , I feel like I need a tractor to pull the rope through the canopies when I'm all done . That's all something dumb really just shouldn't go over that many natural crotches is what it probably boils down to. With SRT 1:1 style the friction is always in front of you so its excellent when your in thick shit that would bind your rope rubbing on limbs while moving about . Where on a rope folded over 2:1 the friction in tight trees with many limbs as you move past them and contact climb line screwing up movement by causing friction on the line . I know most know this I'm just saying how do you go over many trees without binding up and my answer is you don't do it .You either pay now or pay later I think , friction is like your best friend and worst enemy as a tree climber / rigger . A dynamic equilibrium if you will. Put it where you need it and plan ahead ..not like me .
 
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