For Canadians (WSIB alternatives?) anything out there?

Anonymity · May 18, 2022

Is anyone aware of a system of workplace accident insurance provisions for employees and employers that is comparable to WSIB? Or even superior to it?

Fun fact: for those of you that are not aware, it’s a bit of a surprise to hear, but did you know that if you do tree trimming and removal in Ontario Canada you are not legally bound by the government to be covered by WSIB! However if you paint or cut grass you are legally required to be covered under WSIB… strange but true

Thanks

surveyor · May 18, 2022

I would think that if you paint grass you might should be covered by a net and taken upstate?

Muggs · May 18, 2022

I'm in Ontario and I just pay into WSIB for my guy's sake. They suck to deal with but I like knowing that it's there for them if they needed it.

ghostice · May 18, 2022

Not sure about your "fun fact"???
In Ontario WSIB regs "opt out clause" reads like:
"12.1 In sections 12.2, 12.3 and 182.1,
“independent operator” means,
(a) an individual who,
(i) does not employ any workers,
(ii) reports himself or herself as self-employed for the purposes of an Act or regulation of Ontario, Canada or another province or territory of Canada, and
(iii) is retained as a contractor or subcontractor by more than one person during the time period set out in a Board policy, or
(b) an individual who is an executive officer of a corporation that,
(i) does not employ any workers other than the individual, and
(ii) is retained as a contractor or subcontractor by more than one person during the time period set out in a Board policy. 2008, c. 20, s. 4; 2011, c. 1, Sched. 7, s. 3 (1, 2)."
So if you're a lone wolf contractor OK. But where you may get caught and required to opt in/ register for WSIB Insurance anyway is where you contract to a firm that requires it of their subcontractors (check fine print) or you sole source to one bigger company in which case CRA may deem you to be an employee (ouch) and require you to deduct income taxes etc. They can get sticky about this up here. So guess have invoices for more than one customer for sure if you go this way. But many condo boards etc. up here refuse to do any work with you if you don't have a WCB number and a letter of good standing even if you're lone wolf.

(Also, I don't think you can opt out of Provincially run WCB/ WSIB programs in Canada by having some other insurance) - never heard of it anyway.

Reach · May 19, 2022

surveyor said:
I would think that if you paint grass you might should be covered by a net and taken upstate?

In some parts of California, the government is paying to have dried up lawns on foreclosed properties painted green to keep the neighborhoods looking nice…

Anonymity · May 19, 2022

(Also, I don't think you can opt out of Provincially run WCB/ WSIB programs in Canada by having some other insurance) - never heard of it anyway.
[/QUOTE]

ghostice said:
Not sure about your "fun fact"???
In Ontario WSIB regs "opt out clause" reads like:
"12.1 In sections 12.2, 12.3 and 182.1,
“independent operator” means,
(a) an individual who,
(i) does not employ any workers,
(ii) reports himself or herself as self-employed for the purposes of an Act or regulation of Ontario, Canada or another province or territory of Canada, and
(iii) is retained as a contractor or subcontractor by more than one person during the time period set out in a Board policy, or
(b) an individual who is an executive officer of a corporation that,
(i) does not employ any workers other than the individual, and
(ii) is retained as a contractor or subcontractor by more than one person during the time period set out in a Board policy. 2008, c. 20, s. 4; 2011, c. 1, Sched. 7, s. 3 (1, 2)."
So if you're a lone wolf contractor OK. But where you may get caught and required to opt in/ register for WSIB Insurance anyway is where you contract to a firm that requires it of their subcontractors (check fine print) or you sole source to one bigger company in which case CRA may deem you to be an employee (ouch) and require you to deduct income taxes etc. They can get sticky about this up here. So guess have invoices for more than one customer for sure if you go this way. But many condo boards etc. up here refuse to do any work with you if you don't have a WCB number and a letter of good standing even if you're lone wolf.

(Also, I don't think you can opt out of Provincially run WCB/ WSIB programs in Canada by having some other insurance) - never heard of it anyway.

Just to be crystal clear with everyone! I’m not trying to avoid getting insurance for my employees, I’m just wondering if there is better insurance…and regarding the above info “the tree trimming and removal” category has nothing whatsoever to do with the owner/self employed worker, its fairly common knowledge I think that the owner of a company has some level of ability to “opt out of coverage”…

nope That’s not what I’m talking about, I’ve heard it many times at this point…the “fun fact, and crazy fact is this type of work falls under a section called “by application”….but don’t take my word for it call them yourself (the wait times aren’t usually that long.

Anyway, sounds like there isn’t any other options, so I’m sure I’ll be getting it agian (I’ve had a WSIB for years, but now it’s legally a different company, so I need to reapply, so just thought I’d ask

Thanks

ghostice · May 20, 2022

QUOTE: "I’ve had a WSIB for years, but now it’s legally a different company, so I need to reapply, so just thought I’d ask"

They might have a procedure for a company name change rather than reapply - that way you might keep your accident/ experience record/ discounts if any etc. Just a thought. If we see a company has operated for years without a claim that's info worth keeping around.

On other points:

Pruning, surgery, trimming or removal of trees are considered mandatorily covered under Schedule 1 when they are carried out together with other mandatorily covered landscaping services.

Cheers

Anonymity · May 20, 2022

ghostice said:
QUOTE: "I’ve had a WSIB for years, but now it’s legally a different company, so I need to reapply, so just thought I’d ask"

They might have a procedure for a company name change rather than reapply - that way you might keep your accident/ experience record/ discounts if any etc. Just a thought. If we see a company has operated for years without a claim that's info worth keeping around.

On other points:

Pruning, surgery, trimming or removal of trees are considered mandatorily covered under Schedule 1 when they are carried out together with other mandatorily covered landscaping services.

Cheers

Honestly my first thought was, nope, completely new company…however, that’s a very good point you made! I think I’ll call tomorrow and try to make a case for exactly what you said! Thanks for that tip!

burtonbc1400 · May 27, 2022

In BC, worksafeBC is not required as a sole proprietor. It is required for your staff. Prime contractors require it of subcontractors, as do many governments (municipalities, regional districts).

I pay into WSBC for myself ("personal optional protection"), and for my staff, mandatory.

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Anonymity · May 28, 2022

Just an update, new company has full WSIB coverage for employees and owner and years of perfect record was carried forward…i repeat I never was planing on not having some sort of coverage…I just wanted the best option available for me and staff….

But again, I do want people to be aware (I think it’s stupid and have know idea about the logic), that government doesn’t require company’s who do tree trimming and remove to have coverage. Take it for what it’s worth, it’s just info to share

All the best