Folding Tree

That is a great technique to learn and will practice. I have thought of some ways to do the same, but the brain farts about how to do it. That was a great job you did and enjoyed the pics, when passing on the info I will give you full credit and the buzz.
 
Graeme,
I remember you talking about this technique years ago when you were in the US. I have used it only three or four times, but everytine was successful. I have yet to try it with the pull rope. Each time I used standing trees to create the break. Only once did I do it without rigging the top to itself. I just figured that since I was there, I might as well tie it up in case it goes when I'm rappelling or something.

Nice work as usual. I wouldn't show this to my new guys though! /forum/images/graemlins/shocked.gif It takes real careful claculating to use this technique with the success that you have. The faller, the climber and everyone near the zone is in danger if they aren't prepared for what could happen when it does.
 
Roger Barnett, "folding tree" has recieved a lot of response since your post, and Graeme has answered the questions very well. Especially about leaving plenty of meat in the hinge, and understanding that the head line is sometimes the sacrificial lamb in the works.

I will add this to it, I've often used the technique to fall limb locked trees, particularly second growth redwoods. They are well known for being quite tangled together at times. In this case it's not so much a matter of shortening up the fall zone but a matter of getting the top to relieve/fold back, so the body of the tree can fall out of the group. And 99% of the time the top will drop/fall/fold right on the stump. So that's not a good place to be when everything starts moving. Though, a lot of variables there too, sometimes the tree may still have to be rigged and pulled out of the group. And in that case there's usually plenty of time to leave the scene. Also, you may want, or need to tie the top to the main stem,,, to ensure that it is pulled out, rather than risk leaving it hanging in it's neighbors.

Earlier I mention the occurrance of rotten trees folding back when being forced/felled through neighboring trees,,, Codominants can do the same, as I've had it happen to me a couple of times, and seen it happen to other fallers. Scary when you're not expecting it. Which brings to mind a short story: A Wooly redwood, about 170 feet tall, doubled out about 50 feet up. Rubbed it by a neighbor and split the union sending the back two-thirds of the tree my way. Had to drop the saw and run like a dog. After changing my shorts I went back to see what I had to buck, and had to run like a dog again. There was a honey bees nest in that union. That redwood laid there for quite some time.

Folding tree has been a good thread that brings lot of things to mind, thanks again, Graeme!

Jerry B
 
Freaking awesome stuff and ingenuity from the legendary Graeme!

Since seeing him show stuff similar to this i've only 'risked' it in hung up stuff of smaller scale. i guess it was too close to school to just blow it up /forum/images/graemlins/devdude.gif like he's shown!
 
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Here's one pic I have. It shows the tree pre-cut and rigged and ready to fall.

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Here it is as a lightened jpg.

Where is the original folded tree thread?
 

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In doing some research to help Butch with his question I keep running across the below message when trying to view Graeme's attachments from 2002. Is this something Tom has done to my access? /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dan
======================

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /forum/images/upload/3302-olindafalls_0420.JPG on this server.

Apache/1.3.31 Server at www.treebuzz.com Port 80
 
THanks MB,
couldn't really see what was going on in that first one.
DEfinately a technique for a unique situation. If the opportunity arises for me to do it, I'd set my hinge, walk away and then trigger. Hope I do get the chance.
 
Is this something Tom has done to my access?

Bad joke Dan /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

No one ever has any controls put on them at Treebuzz.

When you're looking for some older pictures you might find that they don't exist anymore. The server ate them when it crashed. You could write to the original poster and see if they can repost the pics.
 
Pretty cool, but it seems potentially really dangerous. I think everyone talking about trying it out should really be careful. I mean, I know that's kinda obvious. But I can think of quite a few ways that could go very wrong, especially if someone climbs to make the cut rather than using a lift. Maybe you guys can think of all the same potential problems, but only a few have said anything. I'll just say what I can think of, in case any others hadn't thought of it, and I'd like to hear what anyone else can think of.
So, someone mentioned too deep a backcut, and that sure could be a problem, mostly if someone was on their way down. Especially if the top had nowhere to go in the direction of the top notch. If the hinge did fail because of too deep a cut or an unexpected breeze, and the top tipped enough to break the hinge (how far would depend on the tree)but got snagged in another tree it could shove the butt back off the cut and onto the climber, either while they're up by the cut or on their way down. It's the same potential problem when you might be doing the usual dumping out of a top and it gets snagged. Nobody wants that. A slightly high backcut can at least keep it from pushing back off the cut, but if the top went back onto the kerf and popped that wouldn't help. Again, depends on the tree, but some of the same potential problems exist there, except there's no hinge left with the top nearer to vertical. I'd hate to be halfway down and the top break free in a tight space to potentially roll off the cut and drop straight down. Most of the problems I can see are related to the precarious top already cut with a climber up there or on their way down. I see why Mark tied the top, but that could also really suck with a big top swinging back into the trunk you're going down and smacking you, even if you try and stay on the opposite side.
Another possible danger is related to the length of the top and where it may land after breaking free. You can see in the video and Graeme mentioned you gotta run the hell outta there as the top comes back, it landed right where he was cutting. It may be possible to direct the top notch slightly toward the side of the trunk opposite from where the feller would stand for the final cut, to swing the brush just a bit away.
Alot of this techniques success or failure would depend on the skill of the cutter and the knowledge of the wood, like so many things we do. I'm not dogging the method, like I said it's pretty cool, and Graeme, you did a great job there- but I can't see many times I'd want to do it, especially being tied into the tree. Maybe I'm a wuss...
 
Tom, the server returns "HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden" for that item, which means it's actually there but the filesystem permissions flags on it are too restrictive (not "readable" by the owner and/or group of the board software or the web serving process).

By changing one character in the filename (to something nonexistent) the server returns "HTTP/1.0 404 Not Found", which is what would happen had the item been actually (instead of merely effectively) "lost" as you suggest.

If your hosting service can't fix that in about 25 seconds I'd be happy to do it for you, but I'll need administrative access to the server (likely not just admin access to the board software).
 
The technique definetly works well, and sure you've got to be careful, but what cuts are there where you don't have to when be careful??

Another way you can do it is to drop crotch the top but leave it up there instead of lowering it (like if there's no room to let it down around the base of the tree), and then fell the tree...the tree has been shortened up so it fits in the space available, and the top lands away from the base of the tree.

Also reminds me of years ago when I was starting out in business and working alone, putting a rope in the top of an oak, coming down lower to put in notch and back cut, then rapelling to base and pulling out the top, then cutting and pulling the rest of the stem over later.

Moments after I pulled out a top like this, the customer came running out, seriously alarmed, and said "What's going on!! One of the tree tops in the back yard just fell out!" She had been looking out the window and could see the tree but not me.

I said, "I know, I just pulled it out". She had a hard time grasping what was going on and believing it was safe. It was wierd, I sensed she lost confidence in me.
 
I like the "drop crotch and leave it up there" technique!
beerchug.gif
 
I had a 115' Tulip Poplar that had partially uprooted and fallen (60 degree angle) into another large tree across a rock wash on a 30 degree sloped hillside. Walked up it with safety lines in two trees to the sides and behind me so I could bail out at any time. Set a cable to my Lewis winch at about 65' (32" diameter at that point), placed wide face cut on top side of trunk about 5' below cable, undercut it leaving about 6-8" of wood and got off the tree. Standard face cut at base of tree, and back cut till about same 6 - 8" hinge remained, and got out of there. Fired up chainsaw winch, took up slack and started pulling till the hinges snapped and it folded back on itself. Only unknown was if the top portion would fall back on butt log or stand on it's own butt and fall anywhere it felt like going. Luckily it fell back onto lower section. No cleanup, as homeowner wanted the area to be left 'natural'. Did not have rope in top of the tree; that may have been better for insuring direction of fall.
 
I like the video and its a great idea, i didn't really see the use hear in minnesota the trees are not that tall but then i ran into a dead aspen around many other trees and it had to be the biggest one no other ideas and not safe enough to go up and top it out and it worked great and no damage was done to the surrounding trees. I might add it is a bit scary to do.
 
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