So I'm 90% contract climber at this point and have been for a little while now and looking to step into equipment next year as I'll have enough tax returns to show growth and high profitability. My question is should I go the standard route and get a chipper and chip truck or my current musing is buying a rear mount grapple truck, that allows me to haul both brush and logs on my own jobs as well as sub out as a top level climber and sub the grapple truck to haul wood at an extra charge. If all you big business guys could do it all over how would you build up a fleet?
First order of business
- Thread starter Sgfinco
- Start date
In my hood, a climber with a chipper and dump will be competing with dozens of others that can all do the same thing.
A climber that could move and haul tons of tree in short time with little manpower could probably pick and choose what he wanted to do, all for top dollar and probably retire early.
If you got a solid way to dispose of brush and junk logs, you’d kill it with a grapple.
A climber that could move and haul tons of tree in short time with little manpower could probably pick and choose what he wanted to do, all for top dollar and probably retire early.
If you got a solid way to dispose of brush and junk logs, you’d kill it with a grapple.
I think one of my stipulations for contracting with it is for the primary contractor to have a dump site for me located and ready to go or pay for city dump fees. For my own work I've found a few place to get rid of junk material otherwise there's always the dump!
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
If I were shopping for a sub in my market I’d suggest going for a chip truck and chipper. Here business don’t regularly sub for each other, it’s kinda like calling the comp to come out on a job they likely lost a bid on. But if there were a sub only with a truck and chipper they can come out and do a job solo, or with a groundie. Then the company could go off and do a different job. This is my market, and a grapple truck wouldn’t be very good at getting at many trees we work on.
I did sub out a crane crew, we had two chip trucks, chippers, small crane, mini skid, 6 guys (5 of which were climbers). It pretty much kicked ass. Fill one truck and use the other while one dumped, backup both chippers to the same dropzone so the ground crew didn’t have to complete or wait turns. There was some standing around time trying to adapt to making efficient use of all the equipment at once.
I did sub out a crane crew, we had two chip trucks, chippers, small crane, mini skid, 6 guys (5 of which were climbers). It pretty much kicked ass. Fill one truck and use the other while one dumped, backup both chippers to the same dropzone so the ground crew didn’t have to complete or wait turns. There was some standing around time trying to adapt to making efficient use of all the equipment at once.
OasisTree
Branched out member
- Location
- Central Missouri
Dont go the grapple truck route unless you are willing for all the DOT and CDL requirements and regulations...However, it offers much more flexibility if you have a good dump site. You dont want to go back to piles of brush by the road with the chipper, but you can work ahead of the grapple all day and it doesn't matter if the piles are all tangled. Plus it takes a pretty big chipper to pick up and dispose of a 4000 pound log like a grapple truck can.
Already have a class A with no restrictions and a friend's wife who's willing to give me the rundown on dot nonsense. She strictly dealt with dot compliance at a large tree service/logging operation.Dont go the grapple truck route unless you are willing for all the DOT and CDL requirements and regulations...However, it offers much more flexibility if you have a good dump site. You dont want to go back to piles of brush by the road with the chipper, but you can work ahead of the grapple all day and it doesn't matter if the piles are all tangled. Plus it takes a pretty big chipper to pick up and dispose of a 4000 pound log like a grapple truck can.
climbingmonkey24
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- United States
The first piece of equipment I ever invested in for being able to do cleanup was a hydraulic dump trailer. Cheaper, and you can even modify it and add sides to make it deeper. I’ve fit practically a whole tree’s worth of brush in dump trailer before.
It’s a more cost effective route if you’re just starting out. Less of an investment and commitment so to speak if you’re gonna have to be financing or taking out loans or whatever to be able to purchase the bigger equipment. Depends where you are with your business too.
If you know you’re gonna be doing enough work to pay it then maybe going with a truck and chipper is the right move. You gotta look at what your comfortable with as far as investing and do you have enough work to make that investment worth it.
The other thing too is what sized jobs you’re gonna be getting into. A chipper might be more ideal. All depends.
It’s a more cost effective route if you’re just starting out. Less of an investment and commitment so to speak if you’re gonna have to be financing or taking out loans or whatever to be able to purchase the bigger equipment. Depends where you are with your business too.
If you know you’re gonna be doing enough work to pay it then maybe going with a truck and chipper is the right move. You gotta look at what your comfortable with as far as investing and do you have enough work to make that investment worth it.
The other thing too is what sized jobs you’re gonna be getting into. A chipper might be more ideal. All depends.
B_Strange
Participating member
- Location
- Simmonsville
Good thoughts. I’m trying to save up for equipment as well and decided on the dump trailer route. Which brand/size did you get? What did you haul it with? I priced a 14’ Felling trailer with a stationary platform and the MSRP was 20k. Little too rich for me right now.
I think there is a kinda current thread on this here as well. . .
rope-a-dope
Branched out member
- Location
- Asheville
Grapple truck for sure. In the mid west, right? Load that shit up and drive it away. One back up driver will let you slay all day or have a cake walk.
We have 5-6 climbers, 3 trucks, 2 chippers, 1 ditch witch, 1 bucket, 1 dump trailer...the slow down is always hauling shit off and getting rid of it.
We have 5-6 climbers, 3 trucks, 2 chippers, 1 ditch witch, 1 bucket, 1 dump trailer...the slow down is always hauling shit off and getting rid of it.
climbingmonkey24
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- United States
I got a 5 x 10 Brimar and then just built sides.
You don’t need something huge unless you’re doing big jobs. And even then, if you cut the brush up and stack it right you’d be surprised how much you can fit in a trailer.
I towed it with a Nissan Rogue. Mainly brush nothing real heavy.
Reason being is because I didn’t have a truck and instead of tying myself up financially by getting a dump trailer and truck at the same time, it was smarter to just go with the smaller trailer that would allow me to use the Nissan and then later down the road upgrade.
Thing is people are always buying trailers, so you can always trade it in for something bigger or sell it.
It depends what your business is focused around. How big of jobs you’re doing, etc
Sometimes it’s better in my opinion to start smaller and work your way up versus investing a whole lot and now you’re working to pay that off for a while versus actually making money yourself. Work your way up as you need too. Again, depends on your business.
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That's kind of what I'm leaning towards. I just need to find more ways to dispose of brush. With the work I'm getting it'd be a one truck set up, I only seem to get the super technical removals that scare most other companies off. A grapple truck would allow me to haul brush and wood then maybe pick up a mini once the ol wallets recovered.
A company here in town demoed a big 50 yard debris truck and loved it but they kept getting booted off city streets being told they were too heavy so I need to talk to them and figure out what there gvwr was and such.
Also thinking about building a truck. I was looking at my buddies tree mek and a 48k tandem Mack cab over with a rear mounted loader and a 35-40 yard box would be killer.
Making payments doesn't worry me I've got more work than I'd like at this point. The big thing holding me back on a lot of jobs is I don't have any way to dispose of debris. I just had a big job that half went to contracting in another buddies crew and equipment for two days.
climbingmonkey24
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- United States
Been there. You make less and spend more when you have to contract someone else to do cleanup.
If you get the grapple truck you're all in - you'll be staffing up, paying repair bills, etc. Lot of guys selling grapple trucks they just bought, here in Florida... The hurricane didn't go too well for them...
What are the dump fees in your area and how much can you sub out a load for? In my area, I can't really compete with $250/load price, so I just haul my medium size loads and sub out full loads. The grapple truck operator is the best in town, and they rake and blow. I just shake my head, say thanks, and sub it out. They make firewood, so it works for them... I don't want a career in debris management unless it is fun and profitable.
We dont have anyone in the area that will sub out just to clean up. I wish we did! Going all in and staffing up is the goal eventually! Hauling debris is the next step for my business, I'll need an employee soon enough anyways.
Also, I've been kind of harping on this dump rolloff thing, but you can cut out a piece of tech by not buying a grapple truck and getting a large dump rolloff/hooklift unit and pairing it with a forwarding mini/wheeled loader. You can keep multiple sites going at the same time with multiple bins. The rolled off bins have lower height, so you don't need the grapple on the grapple truck, which is a pricey piece of gear...
You need to know the charge structure of your dump site. If they charge a flat fee, then bigger is better and you may want a grapple truck. If they charge per ton, then you might be better with roll offs.
David Driver, @Jehinten, and I use roll off/hook lift systems. David regularly manages the big wood.
I'm just in big wood for occassional shits and giggles and I sub it whenever I can. Got two cans on order for Monday morning to clean up my two laurel oaks (~45" left of carport and ~30" center of back yard) I'm taking out tomorrow:
I think @Jehinten typically does medium size projects, but he can speak better to that.
You need to know the charge structure of your dump site. If they charge a flat fee, then bigger is better and you may want a grapple truck. If they charge per ton, then you might be better with roll offs.
David Driver, @Jehinten, and I use roll off/hook lift systems. David regularly manages the big wood.
I'm just in big wood for occassional shits and giggles and I sub it whenever I can. Got two cans on order for Monday morning to clean up my two laurel oaks (~45" left of carport and ~30" center of back yard) I'm taking out tomorrow:
I think @Jehinten typically does medium size projects, but he can speak better to that.
Merle Nelson
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- SF Bay Area, CA
David Driver - hook lift not roll off. If a person were choosing one from scratch look hard at the benefits of hook lift.
Fivepoints
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- East of Huntsville, AL
Merle,
What are the benefits of hooklift? I always kinda just thought they were a parallel to a roll off setup. The only benefit I know of is the driver doesn't have to get out to hook up a can.
What are the benefits of hooklift? I always kinda just thought they were a parallel to a roll off setup. The only benefit I know of is the driver doesn't have to get out to hook up a can.
Fivepoints
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- East of Huntsville, AL
Sgfinco,
We have both a grapple truck and a bandit 990xp with two trucks we chip into. The chipper will really compact the brush versus a grapple truck. On the other hand, the chipper won't pick up 20" logs and load them into the truck. I'd say the cdl thing is a wash. If you have a large chip truck, your going to end up getting one either way. Its not nearly as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. I have a class A. If you're towing a 14k dump trailer with more than a 12k gvwr truck, your in class A territory. My wife's 3500 dodge is a 12,200 gvwr truck. With the setup colb is suggesting, you may be class A as well. You would have to make return trips to get your loader unless you can put in on the truck. Most of the roll off trailer setups I've seen are gooseneck. If I was starting again, I'd do the grapple truck first if I had a decent dump spot.
For reference, we have a 33k gvwr single axle Petersen tl3 with a 20 ft bed. I would like a tandem axle for the weight hauling ability but I take it into yards a lot and a tandem scrubs to much. They also don't turn as well. I've thought about putting a tag axle on mine and having it recertified to 42,000. My license tag is good for that much weight. Another thing that's good about the grapple truck, if you have your own wood lot, you can pile the logs up much higher with it vs a mini skid.
We have both a grapple truck and a bandit 990xp with two trucks we chip into. The chipper will really compact the brush versus a grapple truck. On the other hand, the chipper won't pick up 20" logs and load them into the truck. I'd say the cdl thing is a wash. If you have a large chip truck, your going to end up getting one either way. Its not nearly as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. I have a class A. If you're towing a 14k dump trailer with more than a 12k gvwr truck, your in class A territory. My wife's 3500 dodge is a 12,200 gvwr truck. With the setup colb is suggesting, you may be class A as well. You would have to make return trips to get your loader unless you can put in on the truck. Most of the roll off trailer setups I've seen are gooseneck. If I was starting again, I'd do the grapple truck first if I had a decent dump spot.
For reference, we have a 33k gvwr single axle Petersen tl3 with a 20 ft bed. I would like a tandem axle for the weight hauling ability but I take it into yards a lot and a tandem scrubs to much. They also don't turn as well. I've thought about putting a tag axle on mine and having it recertified to 42,000. My license tag is good for that much weight. Another thing that's good about the grapple truck, if you have your own wood lot, you can pile the logs up much higher with it vs a mini skid.
Jehinten
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Evansville
I do typically do what most would consider medium to smaller jobs, we just don't get that big of trees in this region compared to some, and I used to primarily work alone as well. Here as of late I've been partnering with @kiteflyingeek to knock out jobs. With my roll offs I hire a subcontractor to deliver and haul away the roll off, he takes it to the disposal site and they charge my card that is on file. It works great for me because that's less time driving back and forth on my part and no maintenance as he owns the setup, the downside is that he isn't always available. We took down a 40" pine yesterday, I called for a container to haul off what wouldn't fit in the dump truck and he was out of town. In this instance I left the mini overnight, brought back a dump trailer today and got all but one piece in the trailer. That one piece went on the 1 ton flatbed along with the mini.
If you could find a reliable company with a roll off/hooklift setup that runs multiple employees, you could buy your own container and have them haul it. Saves personnel, truck cost, and down/travel time. The multiple employees would ensure that you don't run into my situation where the only driver is out and unavailable.
