FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- UPDATE IN OP

R

Ron

Location
Chattanooga
I was not satisfied with the video quality so I re-converted to another format and uploaded it and the quality is much better. I am replacing the former link with this better version. The link below is now the correct link.

I don't know if this is something that would get much, but it's probably worth knowing.

Man! Have I ever had a hassle trying to put this together. I lost a set of the videos, it rained forever (seems like), I finally got it together last night, got up this morning and two sections from a .mov format went dark - audio but no video. Conversion that is normally very straight forward took hours and produced huge files. Finally, I went with the raw .mov format, even though VideoWave (my video editor) has no sound for this format and the quality of those sections seem jumpy. Fortunately there's only a few short sections like that, 99% of it is good. The whole thing is a little choppy, keep in mind I had to condense the video from two ground cameras and my helmet cam down into 10 minutes.

Here are a couple of pics of the rig - I explain the use and function of everything and give some tips in the video.
Pic 1
4474366858_7de32fc7cb.jpg


Pic 2
4473589389_eaa3fabeeb.jpg


There's a couple of shots from the ground cams and when I looked at them, the climbing 'looked' strenuous, but it really isn't at all, it's quite easy climbing as far as climbing goes.

The video is here, it just went live so the quality may not be as good as it will be later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpEvGG9HsVQ
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

Ron,
Either I'm to quick on the draw or something went wrong.
I get "This video is not yet processed".
I always enjoy your videos, keep em coming.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

[ QUOTE ]
Ron,
Either I'm to quick on the draw or something went wrong.
I get "This video is not yet processed".
I always enjoy your videos, keep em coming.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey thanks!

Yep, sorry about that - see my note in bold above. I saw it go 100% published and thought it was 'public'. Since I've seen the thing seems like a 1000 times (grrrr) I didn't try to watch it.

It will eventually pop up, just keep tryin' from time to time - I'm pretty pleased with the technique and video.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

There seems to me much less complicated ways to get across a sloping line. Especially with 2 ascenders. And why not pretension your traverse line if you are going to do it with your body weight anyway when you get to the top of the traverse on the way down? Is the aim a removable anchor there?
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

[ QUOTE ]
There seems to me much less complicated ways to get across a sloping line. Especially with 2 ascenders. And why not pretension your traverse line if you are going to do it with your body weight anyway when you get to the top of the traverse on the way down? Is the aim a removable anchor there?

[/ QUOTE ]

Less complicated? Two ascenders and two pulleys? It's not exactly a traverse. I've done 90' SRT traverses and it's an entirely different thing. On that particular traverse I did tension the line as much as I could by just pulling with my hands; typically pretension follows the 12 man rule, i.e. you tension the rope with the force 12 men could pull with. So my pretension is just barely tension at all. But you do hit the 'V', but it's simple to use your hands and a progress capture, I used a hitch, and pull yourself right up the rope. It sounds so easy when you say it fast - it's not that easy.

When you start trying things, like say a Pantin, you wind up with your foot over your head, with your upper body dangling and your arms fatiguing from trying to hold you. But if you come up with something simpler that works, please let me know.

Pretensioning lines is a tricky business. It's not difficult to pretension the line, but you can easily overload tie-in points and anchors points due to the high stress on the rope due to the combination of pretension and your weight. Plus why go to that much complication when a slack rope eliminates the problem to begin with.

But I would normally tension the line a bit more, but there's not as much advantage to it as you might think.

There's another important advantage to the loose rope, you get to the tree quicker. In the video, I simply went up to ride down and demo the method in the process. But if one intended to climb the tree, the loose rope will get you to the tree sooner than on a pretensioned line. Once you're to the tree, you can immediately get a setting and start climbing in a traditional manner.

In the video I have a fixed ground anchor. But I do have an anchor method that allows me to traverse to the other tree and completely retrieve the rope from the lower anchor. Then, when I'm ready to go back down, I can reinstall the lower anchor from the tree I'm in.

Hmmm, I may do a video of that.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

This would've been great for an oak I needed to access and remove a major dead limb. The tree was in a renaturalization area of raspberry cane. It was rough getting in there, this would've been a perfect approach. I could see this being used on another job I'll be doing where the trees are situated on a steep slope. I could easily access the tree from the top instead of hiking down the embankment just to go back up!


I just need that fixed micro pulley.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

I guess what I meant was less gear intensive. You're right, your way isn't really complicated, it just contains more hardware than is normally in my climbing bag. I've done plenty of traversing pitches on SRT, both nearly horizontal with pretensioned trolly or traverse lines down to more vertical slope ropes as you call them. Granted, most of these were in caves and not in trees, though I have used sort of similar stuff to access higher crowns in adjacent trees to a high TIP in a lower tree. Oh, and I can think of some poision ivy swims where a sloping access from another tree would have been nice. But then, it seems we're usually taking the poison ivy out as well, so you still have to get in it
smirk.gif

I wouldn't use a pantin, but I have used my leg on the more horizontal portions. Most of the time on SRT slopes or traverses I'm using an upper ascender (petzl basic)with a foot loop on it and a croll on my harness. Usually I just run my footloop through the connector at the croll as well and that seems to do the trick. Not quite as slick as with the pulleys, but it gets the job done, especially for as infrequently as I use it.
You could also use a hitch where the croll is and do the same thing (my typical srt ascent setup into trees). Though you do lose a little more with a hitch than with a pulley of course. Heck, use a double micro pulley at the hitch on your harness and you've got a pulley on your footloop as well. Don't know if that would line up well though.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

[ QUOTE ]
When would you need to enter a tree using a sloped entry?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Dan,

Good question! As I said in the OP, I don't know that this would see a lot of 'action' but it could come in handy in a few instances such as the ones TreeHumper mentioned.

In the video I mentioned that there might be poison ivy around the tree or maybe a creek that we don't want to try to wade through with gear.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

caleb,
Certainly there are variations that would work, and the variations you described may work just as well and be a little less specialized - that'd be good.

One thing about this method is that you will transistion from a horizontal orientation to a vertical orientation, so the system, whatever it is, has to be good on horizontal sections and vertical sections and everything in between.

I simply have an aversion to pre-tensioning ropes in trees without pretensioned back ties. Not only can there be more force on the tree than a vertical ascent, that force is trying to pull the tree over. The loose or slacked rope minimizes forces in the rope and at the upper and lower TIPs.

I'm gonna do a lower setup using a pulley and a Distel hitch - the very setup I demo'd in the friction hitch yo-yo in the rec forum. It looks like it would work fine, but it depends on how much stretch we get in the friction hitch.

One thing that should be nice about using a hitch is that you could probably use just about any kind of pulley. The only thing I know of that could be a problem is how much stretch we'll get in the friction hitch when we start going vertical.

If we use the swivel, and I think we should for the reasons I gave in the video, we loose a lot of stroke distance compared to not having it in there. The combination of the additional length of the swivel and two biners and stretch in the friction hitch could take up all of our stroke room.

I agree about running the foot loop through the biner on the harness, I do that sometimes too. And I don't know that it'd be any less efficient.

I am going to try the pulley and friction hitch and I'll run the foot loop from the ascender through a biner that attaches the swivel and see how that works. But, what I have found on a rope with an upward slope is that that method becomes inefficient because it doesn't pull the pulley up the rope as well, so it's harder, and two the progress made per stroke gets shorter. But I still want to give it a try.

I should be able to do this Thursday, depending on weather. Should have video shortly thereafter.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

Ron,
I totally understand the aversion to tensioning lines in trees, especially with high TIPs. Backties would be ideal, but I don't think most people would take the time unless there were no other options, including accessing the tree some other way. And you are absolutely correct, more tension, more force on the TIP, especially while doing something slightly more dynamic like ascending as opposed to a smooth descent.
My "frogger" setup (basic and croll) is typically used for caves where you are ALWAYS on a single line. I've found this to work very well with both dead vertical and more horizontal roped terrain. I do always carry a micro pulley and hitch cord as well though, and it has come in handy. My tree SRT, a handled ascender above a hitch with a pantin functions differently on vertical terrain, but on a sloping traverse seems about the same to me, especially with the addition of a foot loop.
Actually, the distance that the swivel introduces is another thing I don't think I'd like all that much. I would like to give it a try though. The only thing we have that swivels is arock exotica omni block which I don't like using for a pulley on traverses because it doesn't truly "lock". Allthough with the addition of a hitch backup/progress capture to the locker that the omni is on that might make the risk of accidentally unclipping the sheave negligable but I still balk a little at it.
Looking forward to your video though. I don't really get to see other people climbing trees and using different techniques often at all and I love to see it when I can. I'm always looking for ways to better my technique, but I tend to shy away from adding more gear, but mostly because I like to keep the stuff on my saddle down as much as possible.
cheers,
-caleb
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

Ron,

Thats great, I really think that is a cool technique. Maybe useful for traversing between trees? I noticed in some of your other videos you are doing something with a screw gate at your TIP, what is the purpose of it and how is it tied in? (butterfly knot or?)
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

Caleb
I'm not clear how you attach to a horizontal line. E.g. if you just hooked up a frog doesn't your weight get applied to the Croll in an incorrect direction?

I.e. what I'm envisioning is the Croll parallel to the rope and your weight being applied 90° to the way it normally would, like this??? Notice how the 90° and the twist that's put in the Croll (actually this is an ABC) when I pull straight down. Sorry the pic is a bit blurry, I got lazy and didn't use a tripod and....

4477903170_1f75117874.jpg
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

[ QUOTE ]
Ron,

Thats great, I really think that is a cool technique. Maybe useful for traversing between trees? I noticed in some of your other videos you are doing something with a screw gate at your TIP, what is the purpose of it and how is it tied in? (butterfly knot or?)

[/ QUOTE ]
I use a little different technique for an essential horizontal traverse. The traverse here on an upward sloping rope. It is specifically to get you from ground level well up into a tree and over obstacles.

An upward sloping rope has some problems a 'traverse' doesn't have. You can just about pull yourself up a traverse with your hands, maybe with some help with an ascender and a progress capture of some kind for your saddle. The traverse I show in the above video is much too steep to do that.

I've got 40 videos, mostly climbing, doing all kinds of stuff. Do you happen to remember the title of the video you saw the "butterfly not or ?" in?
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

Hey Ron,
It really depends on the slope and length of the line, but the short answer is that on a truly horizontal traverse I'll forgo the croll alltogether. If the distance in short I have a locker on a short leash (sometimes I use a pulley) and just hand over hand it. Over longer horizontal distances I do the same thing if the traverse has occassional foot holds. But for a free hang I'll use either a single or two linked carabiners to my harness (again sometimes with a pulley) and hand over hand it until that gets tough then I'll add the upper ascender until I either reach the anchor or encounter a slope that approaches a more vertical orientation at which point I'll try to use my croll and pass the footloop through the connector like we were talking about earlier. I imagine a pulley and hitch would make more sense here with my typical tree setup. Also as I mentioned earlier, most of my experience with horizonatal and tensioned traverses or sloping tyroleans and such is in vertical caves. The anchors there are typically bolts in rock, so while forces on the anchor are a concern they are different concerns than you might find in tree work. Also the harnesses are very different as well. For example on my caving harness I attach my croll with a petzl omni half round instead of a normal locking carabiner. Not to say that this would make the croll any less of a hassle on a truly horizontal traverse though. Or that on a horizontal traverse in trees (crown to crown lets say) I would bother with the croll either. In fact I never use a croll in a tree. I'd probably still try and get away with as few things attached to the traverse line as possible. So either a locker on a short leash, or a a pulley and a hitch if you think you might slide some past the midpoint of the traverse or if the anchors are not exactly level with one another.
Lowering back down the sloping line and making the whole thing retrievable from the ground is a neat trick though. I'd like to think about that some more.
 
Re: FINALLY!! My sloped rope entry video- FINALLY!!

We're certainly lookin' at this pretty much the same. I have a video of me doing an uphill traverse, but this is nothing like the steepness of the sloped rope traverse posted in the OP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmnnvC_CeJM

It wasn't nearly as easy as it looked - I was worn out.

I think what I have in the sloped rope video is an optimal hardware version, and there are likely some other equally good ways to do the same thing, but as soon as I did the friction hitch yo-yo video, I knew right then I was gonna try it on the sloped rope for the bottom ascender and pulley. I would have done that today but I wanted to play with my brand new Petzl Rig. The only concern I have about the friction hitch is stretch or expansion as it may be. If I can't control the stretching adequately, it will tempt me to remove the swivel and I think the swivel is important. I like to turn 180° when I reach the tree and the swivel let's me do that.

However, I ordered a back-to-back carabiner swivel from Sherrill today and that will be considerably shorter than a swivel and two biners. Of course that's more gear, but I wanted to try the biner-swivel-biner anyway.

But I'm not a gear head! I can quit any time.
crazy.gif


I've got two things I want to do Thursday; one is the friction hitch pulley thing and I'll have to look and see what the other thing I wanted to do is. I'll probably wear myself plumb out. And, probably by Thursday the Unicender a friend is loaning me will be here....Between climbing and editing videos, I'll be busy all weekend. I'll sure be glad when school is out - I'll be home for three months!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom