Fid lengths

overpaidmuniguy

overpaidmuniguy

Location
Cleveland, OH
Quick question for anyone who might know a bit on splicing:

Is there a formula for figuring out how long a fid length is without the proper size fid for the rope you're working on?

Samson and New England use fid length or half-fids for measuring for splices, but I don't want to buy a set of fids just to use them as rulers.

Brion Toss in his double braid instructions in "Knots for Boaters" uses rope diameters as his measure, it seems 22 diameters fits for a fid length, or am I just fooling myself?

A while back I got Samson's splicing kit which came with a 1/2" fid, and it is 11" long.

My home projects awaiting me will be on 5/8" and 3/4", if I do the 22 diameter scheme will I end up right, or will I end up with too little bury, etc.?

Thanks.
 
Samson's page should give dimensions as well as the samson splicing manual I know for sure has the fid lengths for each diameter of rope.
 
Blinky hit the nail on the head!!! some splices require a full fid length but some like the double braid do call for long and short fid lengths
 
Thanks fellers
It's nice having access to folks smarter than me at the touch of a button.
I suppose I ought to get the Samson manual, downloading instructions for specific splices may not have been enough by itself.

No wonder I've had some end up just not right, big difference between short fid and half fid.

Take care.
 
OK, I was all fired up to get started, used a little algebra to come up with some measurements, then got back into my confused state. Maybe I'm being too fussy, but if 21 diameters is the trick, why is my Samson fid for 1/2" rope 11 inches long? I know 22 diameters makes for some ugly numbers in thirds, but that seems to be what I got from Samson.
I don't really have the experience to judge whether or not 1 diameter less means a big deal. Would going the other way make a difference either? i.e. using 24 for the sake of whole numbers (24,16,8)?
Anyway, just a little new at splicing braid, maybe being over cautious (and cheap).
Thanks.
 
Nah- don't worry about it. If you are using a consistent technique for determining your lengths, it'll work out. If you switch around and use diameter x 21 for the core tail, then mark the crossover at diaeter x 22, you might end up with some problems when you run it home.

Use the fid marks, you'll be just fine.

Bring us pictures!

love
nick
 
I gotta learn to splice.
smirk.gif
 
I have a question slightly off topic, please forgive me. When pushing a fid through for a bury, the rope keeps coming apart from the fid. I tried taping it and using a pusher but nothing seems to work. Any suggestions.

P.S. I am very new at splicing. This is my first attempt at double braids using tubular fids.
 
emr- You might be better off with a pull-type fid like a wire fid or something along those lines, but to answer your question...

When you are putting the rope into the back of the fid, is the tape going around ALL of the strands? How secure is the rope in the back of the fid? When I do it, the rope almost feels like it will stay in there by itself, though it still requires the pusher...but it SEEMS secure.

What tape are you using? I have a feeling the problem is with the tape. Electric tape doesn't really have good holding power. It's good at what it's designed for, but in splicing it gets pulled sideways and it tends to smear off. You are better off with strong-holding masking tape or even clear packaging tape.

Post a pic of what it looks like just before it goes in and I might be able to help you with that.

I usually taper the last 2" before putting taping it.

With packaging tape, in extreme cases, I've found it useful to tape the rope TO the fid.

love
nick
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question slightly off topic, please forgive me. When pushing a fid through for a bury, the rope keeps coming apart from the fid. I tried taping it and using a pusher but nothing seems to work. Any suggestions.

P.S. I am very new at splicing. This is my first attempt at double braids using tubular fids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bend a 'coat hanger' into a loooonnnnnnnggggg "U" shape. Insert the "U" at the exit point for the core (1/2 fid length below the crotch of the splice) and exit at the taper. Insert the core into the "U", pull about half an inch into the fid and retract. Much easier than using a tube fid.
 
I have a few coat hanger fids, I also made some pretty nice piano wire fids. Funny thing is I thought that the tubular fids would work better for the double braids. Guess I was wrong. But now its personal and I want to finish a splice with the tubulars.
 
Much like tree climbing many splicers will be partial to certain techniques for different splices and each splicer is unique in their preferences. When doing a double braid splice I almost always use a tubular fid for burying the sheath into the core, but then use a wire fid for the crossover depending on the diameter of the line. Anything over 9/16" will get the tubular fid for the crossover as well.....but that's just me.
 
hey fellers,
Just got my recent projects done, I'll have to eat crow and ask my wife to help get some pictures on. Easier said than done, she thought I'd be done "d*cking around with rope" when I came back from the splicing symposium. Housework can wait.

A few splices turned out good, if a bit lumpy. I'm fired up about one splice that turned out great. A 6' loop out of 3/4" double braid with 2 3" steel rigging rings inside. I had goose bumps when the first piece was let out on it, ooooooh... splicing satisfaction, even if it was a puny limb.

P.S. had a bit of trouble with my wire pullers (I suspect technique) and fell back on my home-made fids/bits of junk cut from the long section from plastic coat hangers. The 3/4" braid was pretty roomy which allowed them to work well enough for a novice.

Later on...
 
OK, my wife says this should really work:

http://picasaweb.google.com/overpaidmuniguy/RopeProjects

If you could actually get the pictures on the screen, here's how I'd describe them...

1&2) 2 eyes done on opposite ends of a 20' chunk of 5/8" double braid that I got from one of the mechanics in the public works shop. I don't know who made the rope, solid white with a blue ink tracer. Also, a bit hard to see, a backsplice on New England Dynaglide

3) This is my proudest accomplishment as of yet, 6' end for end loop out of 3/4" double braid with 2 3" steel rings, for all those situations where setting up the blocks would be overkill. Went together nicely. Had considered making it a bit shorter, but ended up glad I didn't. It took some doing to expose the core more than a few inches beyond the third mark, cover jammed all the way back to the knot. Had I tried for a 5' loop I might have been cursing the stars.
One question on a detail: I did the typical lockstitch through both buried crossovers, but decided to add the whipping closer to the splice opening, just to keep it in one place more or less. Maybe this was redundant, if so I guess no big deal. But now I'm wondering that with two different sets of locking stitches, did I set up a scenario where the lockstitches may become load-bearing? The sling has been used on some small stuff and it seems like everything is OK. Anyway, Rich says splicing will turn you anal retentive about smooth tapers, so I'm not worried about splitting hairs over lockstitching.

3) The true life-critical splice, thermos handle in 3-strand.

Anyway, hope those pictures come up OK, definitely would leave less up to the imagination

PS Happy Arbor Day
 
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