Fall Factor

W

WannaClimb

Location
PA
Can anyone confirm that the fall factor would be the same regardless of the type of rope (dynamic vs static and elongation principles). However, the variable WOULD be the "shock" the climber experiences ?

It seems like all of the literature I'm coming across is geared toward dynamic ropes/UIAA equipment.

Just curious

Thanks
 
First rule of arb work is: Don't Fall - ever (remember - work positioning not fall arrest and the ANSI Z133).
In my mind there's a distinction to be made between the force generated by a falling object (climber and gear) and the force the person will experience (here's where there's a difference between static - ouch - rope like arb ropes v.s. dynamic ropes - sport/ alpine climbing ropes). Dynamic rope spreads the generated force (ruled by the laws of plain old physics) out over time - kinda like the opposite of the force equation in which acceleration is a squared quantity (m/sec2) - what kinda gets us in trouble, quick like. The dynamic rope stretch works great - the longer the rope is you have in the system to act as a "spring" and the more give you have in your system (belayer gives some pay initially to lessen the sudden stop much like negative rigging a piece down off a tree). You can also use a zip sling to spread the force out a bit over time (and lessen the load on the anchor point) as the stitching pulls out. But the fall force is the fall force. Fall factor is a way of looking at how your climbing rig is going to cope with the force regardless of rope or anchor. My two cents this AM. Cheers.
 
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Arborists and tree people in general don't need to worry about fall factor, except with rigging situations. People who work in trees don't fall. Should something go completely wrong, and a person falls, the companies that make our ropes have done their best to help you survive, but survival is not always possible. The ropes are not built to arrest a fall, they are built to keep you up in the tree and provide you a safe means of climbing without excessive stretch (static ropes). Should you fall a short distance, any of them will keep you from going to the ground. Should you fall more than about 6 feet, you will probably wish the damn rope had broken and let you go all the way to the ground.
Dynamic ropes are used to arrest a rock climber who counts on falling from time to time. The rope stretches and absorbs the force over a period of time rather than all at once like a static rope that we use. But you would have one hell of a time trying to climb a dynamic rope.
Rock climbers climb rocks, not ropes. Dynamic ropes are their safety system.
We actually climb ropes, and we really don't have anything that is going to keep you from getting seriously hurt or killed should you fall any distance. So, DON'T! And quit trying to figure out fall factors for climb lines. It really is a waste of time because falling is not an option.
 
Shadowscape said:
Arborists and tree people in general don't need to worry about fall factor, except with rigging situations. People who work in trees don't fall. Should something go completely wrong, and a person falls, the companies that make our ropes have done their best to help you survive, but survival is not always possible. The ropes are not built to arrest a fall, they are built to keep you up in the tree and provide you a safe means of climbing without excessive stretch (static ropes). Should you fall a short distance, any of them will keep you from going to the ground. Should you fall more than about 6 feet, you will probably wish the damn rope had broken and let you go all the way to the ground.
Dynamic ropes are used to arrest a rock climber who counts on falling from time to time. The rope stretches and absorbs the force over a period of time rather than all at once like a static rope that we use. But you would have one hell of a time trying to climb a dynamic rope.
Rock climbers climb rocks, not ropes. Dynamic ropes are their safety system.
We actually climb ropes, and we really don't have anything that is going to keep you from getting seriously hurt or killed should you fall any distance. So, DON'T! And quit trying to figure out fall factors for climb lines. It really is a waste of time because falling is not an option.
Click to expand...
I appreciate you and @ghostice responding. Excellent points gentlemen!
 
Shadowscape said:
Arborists and tree people in general don't need to worry about fall factor, except with rigging situations. People who work in trees don't fall. Should something go completely wrong, and a person falls, the companies that make our ropes have done their best to help you survive, but survival is not always possible. The ropes are not built to arrest a fall, they are built to keep you up in the tree and provide you a safe means of climbing without excessive stretch (static ropes). Should you fall a short distance, any of them will keep you from going to the ground. Should you fall more than about 6 feet, you will probably wish the damn rope had broken and let you go all the way to the ground.
Dynamic ropes are used to arrest a rock climber who counts on falling from time to time. The rope stretches and absorbs the force over a period of time rather than all at once like a static rope that we use. But you would have one hell of a time trying to climb a dynamic rope.
Rock climbers climb rocks, not ropes. Dynamic ropes are their safety system.
We actually climb ropes, and we really don't have anything that is going to keep you from getting seriously hurt or killed should you fall any distance. So, DON'T! And quit trying to figure out fall factors for climb lines. It really is a waste of time because falling is not an option.
Click to expand...
Small point, I climb trees, not ropes, most of the time anyway.
 
If you do break out your tip, a-DRT, isolated, you're going down b- DRT, not isolated you're going to the backup tip with associated lurch c-cinched SRT you're going down d-basal SRT you're also going down e-basal SRT not isolated you're going to the backup tip with associated lurch. DRT has twice the rope holding you so that tends to double the lurch vs SRT. basal SRT puts lots more rope in to lessen the lurch and the rope skid over the crotch during lurch provides a little damping. Having your basal SRT rope impinging some smaller branches provides a very nice shock absorber. And all that without fall factor ;-) trees are different than rock climbing.

I've experienced one basal SRT drop because my tip captured a small protrusion which snapped during ascent. dropped a few feet onto pantin and Haas, non event kept on going. nice soft springy lurch.
 
Bart_ said:
If you do break out your tip, a-DRT, isolated, you're going down b- DRT, not isolated you're going to the backup tip with associated lurch c-cinched SRT you're going down d-basal SRT you're also going down e-basal SRT not isolated you're going to the backup tip with associated lurch. DRT has twice the rope holding you so that tends to double the lurch vs SRT. basal SRT puts lots more rope in to lessen the lurch and the rope skid over the crotch during lurch provides a little damping. Having your basal SRT rope impinging some smaller branches provides a very nice shock absorber. And all that without fall factor ;-) trees are different than rock climbing.

I've experienced one basal SRT drop because my tip captured a small protrusion which snapped during ascent. dropped a few feet onto pantin and Haas, non event kept on going. nice soft springy lurch.
Click to expand...
hello bart, what does lurch mean? greetings
 
Bart_ said:
I've experienced one basal SRT drop because my tip captured a small protrusion which snapped during ascent. dropped a few feet onto pantin and Haas, non event kept on going. nice soft springy lurch.
Click to expand...

An excellent post and accurate observation. Being the kind of person that will push the limits in certain situations, I have also experienced the same phenomenon. One of the many reasons that SRT is my primary and much preferred climbing system.
 
Mr. Lurch there in the pic looks like my relative ;) Dad, is that you? ;) Just kidding. It's the latest dance since the the Watusi. Just kidding. Another word for getting your body smacked by the stopping shock load and the associated motion - I really made up and was liberal with the meaning of the word in this use. Creative writing ;)

derail:
Another funny word use is the "funky chicken" a name given to +Gz chair riders when they come to from passing out. Bit different than the lurch.

Humour can be cruel sometimes. Brave, smart, go-getter dudes every one.
 
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