F8 Revolver

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F8 set up with a short tether.

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Ok, so is it the downward rotation of the Revolver that occurs when it is twisted by loading that creates the large change in effective friction? The mysterious element to this thing has always been how it could slide freely upward when ascending but provide significant friction when descending. This photo does clearly show how the Revolver will certainly change in orientation when it is loaded.
 
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how was the friction descending with the pulley?

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In descent there is no difference whatsoever than with the revolver and Figure 8, however I think the F8 tends in a little bit better. With a different sized ring this may change. I think there are benefits to both systems. The Figure 8 and revolver has the lower loop on the figure 8 to act as a handle to allow for easy adjustment upwards when resetting the F8, but I have a strange feeling that ITCC and Ansi will not allow the use of the revolver in this application. The fact that House allowed it is mainly due to his willingness to see the overall application and realize that if the F8 fails the hitch will hold. It remains to be seen if ITCC will agree....

I think that ITCC and Ansi will allow the micropulley and ring since the micropulley settles into the ring and has no potential for side loading...again, it remains to be seen if either system will pass.

I'm sure Kevin has tried every configuration under the sun while perfecting this system. To see him use it was mindblowing...I sure hope that ITCC allows some version of it so that he can use it in Providence and blow some more minds !!!
 
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I have a robot and it's fairly useless. As in, I haven't found a use for it in about 8 years. I think it would give much much more friction than the f-8 revolver setup does

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Well you could be the guy to try it out first and let us know?

Think the best set up would be to just loop rope on the tube and tether from the ring.
 
I've been playing with this system all week and my biggest problem is tending my hitch when coming back from a long limb walk. I don't want to put too much weight on the limb, but to advance my hitch it seems like that's the only way. I don't know if anyone else is having this same problem.
My solution. And I'm just throwing this out there. Is to tie a small prusik above the F8 with a pulley(or another revolver)and take the fall of your rope and make a 2-1 system to pull yourself back in. You would have to plan for a limb walk in advance in order to set the system up.
I have a pic of the setup for more clarification but don't know how to post pics.
Any input would be great.
 
I see two problems. One problem is the carabiner looks like it just perhaps could get sideloaded. Plus even the locking Revolver is push and twist and with a rope zinging past the "twist" part might perhaps be a little too easy.

The second problem is, and I admit I am speaking from total ignorance here; the lack of friction adjustability combined with the well known taboo on using hitches for SRT descent. I mean if I weigh 150 this scheme may work great, but what if I weigh 250? Will the friction self-adjust? What if I use a different rope? How do I know the hitch is going to be safe? Descending on a flaming hitch is a trick you might only do one time.
 
When the F8 is loaded the revolver sits nicely against the Figure 8 so I don't think there is much risk of the revolver opening up, and even if it did the revolver is backed up by the hitch. Granted without the F8 loaded your full weight would be on the hitch on single line which isn't exactly a situation you want to be in.

As for the weight adjustment issue, so far it seems to self adjust nicely to any weight, any rope, and any hitch. With the F8 loaded it appears that more than half of your weight is taken off the hitch which actually enables it to work smoother than on a doubled rope system. On long flaming descents you would actually burn your hitch far less than you would on doubled rope, not to mention that your tension stays contant as you route over and under limbs vs. huge additional friction on doubled rope.

We spent some time playing around with different ways to get this system to self tend when walking in from limbs and we found a few options that work, but it remains to be seen if they will be applicable when actually working a large tree. (it was raining so we were playing around in a barn)Hopefully get some pics up tomorrow.
 
rich, one thing that I found does not work so well is having the bottom of your tetther attached with a separate carabiner like I see in the pictures. When the f8rev comes up against the friction hitch that biner will flop around. I either have the tether girthed to a ring on my harness, or atached along with the prussic line.

I think there is a whole different style of climbing that takes aliitle used to. there is no hip thrusting. I have begun to climb the tree a lot more. the rope is always there as a hand hold but I dont lean on it so much.

Returning from limb walks I find very easy with it with a little practice. I have not found a tree that I cant use it in yet. Or found a tree that I don't want to use it in.

Thanks for posting pictures rich. I am very glad that people are taking a look at this because it has opened up a huge amount of oppurtunities as far as accessing other trees and traveling easier and safer through the canopy.

I cant believe anyone after taking a good look at it would have a good reason for not allowing it.
 
for that matter why wouldn't you use the figure eight on a long flaming decent?

applaudit.gif
 
Seeing the Fate system getting used by more climbers is SOOOO exciting!

There should be some caution thrown in too. In one comment a climber said that they had a big tree that they were going to use it in the next day. This isn't the best way to use a new technique. Try it 'Low and Slow'while walking on the ground. A shadowy day works really well, to use the limb shadows for limb walking practice.

Another safety practice that should be much more common for arbos, especially with such a new technique, is to tie stopper knots every few feet. A simple slip knot with the bite pulled up from the running end of the rope and set firmly will stop the climber from falling. This is a practice that I came up with years ago and shared with Peter Jenkins from Tree Climbers International. Since then this has been SOP for rec climbers. It would be a good idea for pro climbers to do the same.

Have fun thrashing out the Fate! I'm stoked to hear more feedback!
 
Well we had a play with this today. Descending works extremely well, very smooth & consistant.

I need to experiment & practice a bit with tending line coming back in from a limb walk.

Needing two hands to tend the hitch & the F8Rev seems like a step backwards for me at the moment, like being back on an old prussik loop.

And i'll definately need to work on an efficient ascent method, for me at the moment it's really only good for working from the top down...
 
Used a modified Fate (CT fixed sideplate micropulley and 46 mm aluminum ring) in a storm damaged Elm today and now that my SRT ascent method is somewhat dialed in I have to say that I am more convinced than ever that this system is going to make some BIG changes in the way that I plan and work trees. Can't wait to see what develops.
 
the way I figure it, the fate may be 2 times as hard per foot of rope to tend as a normal VT. But, you only need to tend half as much rope so its more or less the same.
Its been oct/ nov/ dec/ jan/feb/ mar/ april. wow! seven months and no looking back to dDrt for me. I dont miss it at all.
 
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This photo does clearly show how the Revolver will certainly change in orientation when it is loaded.

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Perhaps a swivel should be incorporated into the system? Seems like it shouldn't even matter much as long as the tether is not ridiculously short.

I can't wait to try this!

love
nick
 
one thing that I have discovered is that a black diamond eight is a harder aluminum than the kong eight.

The Kong gets chewed up by the revolver hitting up against it and this can bur up your rope a little. The BD seems to be a more similar alloy to the revolver and doesn't get chewed up so much. Ideally I think that the eight and revolver need to be fitted together a little better, maybe a groove or some rupper bumbers, so where the revolver always rides the same way on the eight or ring.
 
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