descending from the ropewalker - new guy help?
- Thread starter keitht
- Start date
- Location
- Chattanooga
Perhaps the simplest, most straight forward method, is to install a DdRT setting with the other end of the rope. Take a stroke or two to get slack in the ropewalker and remove the ropewalking gear. Install the rack and lock it off and here's the why of the DdRT setting, you can then lower yourself on the DdRT until the rack is fully loaded - the rack has to be locked off.
Remove the DdRT setting, unlock the rack, and you're ready to rappel! Wheeeeee!
Remove the DdRT setting, unlock the rack, and you're ready to rappel! Wheeeeee!
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
are you using a hitch or ascenders?
- Location
- Chattanooga
[ QUOTE ]
Locking off a mini-rack seems to be tricky. Any pics of a mini rack locked off properly?
[/ QUOTE ]
One really neat, simple way is to use a prusik BELOW the rack (on the down line). Tie the prusik securely into your harness somewhere. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE PRUSIK CAN <u>NOT</u> COME IN CONTACT WITH THE BOTTOM OF THE RACK UNDER ANY CONDITIONS!!! If it slides into the rack it cannot lock of the rack.
It may be necessary to put a small tether or extra biner between the rack and your harness to raise the rack out of reach of the prusik.
This prusik will allow you to stop and restart any time you want to.
But, this would be soooo much simplier if you were descending on a Rig instead of a rack.
Locking off a mini-rack seems to be tricky. Any pics of a mini rack locked off properly?
[/ QUOTE ]
One really neat, simple way is to use a prusik BELOW the rack (on the down line). Tie the prusik securely into your harness somewhere. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE PRUSIK CAN <u>NOT</u> COME IN CONTACT WITH THE BOTTOM OF THE RACK UNDER ANY CONDITIONS!!! If it slides into the rack it cannot lock of the rack.
It may be necessary to put a small tether or extra biner between the rack and your harness to raise the rack out of reach of the prusik.
This prusik will allow you to stop and restart any time you want to.
But, this would be soooo much simplier if you were descending on a Rig instead of a rack.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
[ QUOTE ]
One really neat, simple way is to use a prusik BELOW the rack (on the down line). Tie the prusik securely into your harness somewhere. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE PRUSIK CAN <u>NOT</u> COME IN CONTACT WITH THE BOTTOM OF THE RACK UNDER ANY CONDITIONS!!! If it slides into the rack it cannot lock of the rack.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont see any danger with the prussic touching the rack. the rack canont push a prussic down. It is a perfectly backed up system. the worst that can happen is the prussic jams into the rack and you end up stuck. Or take a look at derricks video a couple threads over.
One really neat, simple way is to use a prusik BELOW the rack (on the down line). Tie the prusik securely into your harness somewhere. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT THE PRUSIK CAN <u>NOT</u> COME IN CONTACT WITH THE BOTTOM OF THE RACK UNDER ANY CONDITIONS!!! If it slides into the rack it cannot lock of the rack.
[/ QUOTE ]
I dont see any danger with the prussic touching the rack. the rack canont push a prussic down. It is a perfectly backed up system. the worst that can happen is the prussic jams into the rack and you end up stuck. Or take a look at derricks video a couple threads over.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But, this would be soooo much simplier if you were descending on a Rig instead of a rack.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about a Gri-Gri?
[/ QUOTE ]
Grigri is what I use. I'D and Eddy have "anti-panic" overpull protection but are heavier, overall larger and significantly more expensive than the Grigri. Rig doesn't have overpull protection but is larger/heavier than the Grigri. Trango Cinch is too sketchy for me for any kind of long SRT rappel. Nothing is perfect, everything has trade-offs, Grigri remains my favorite. The anti-panic feature of the I'D and Eddy are great for people who aren't used to being on rope but don't make sense (IMHO) for experienced climbers: DdRT friction hitches don't have anti-panic features either
-moss
[ QUOTE ]
But, this would be soooo much simplier if you were descending on a Rig instead of a rack.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about a Gri-Gri?
[/ QUOTE ]
Grigri is what I use. I'D and Eddy have "anti-panic" overpull protection but are heavier, overall larger and significantly more expensive than the Grigri. Rig doesn't have overpull protection but is larger/heavier than the Grigri. Trango Cinch is too sketchy for me for any kind of long SRT rappel. Nothing is perfect, everything has trade-offs, Grigri remains my favorite. The anti-panic feature of the I'D and Eddy are great for people who aren't used to being on rope but don't make sense (IMHO) for experienced climbers: DdRT friction hitches don't have anti-panic features either
-moss
- Location
- Chattanooga
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But, this would be soooo much simplier if you were descending on a Rig instead of a rack.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about a Gri-Gri?
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with what moss said, but would add these thoughts:
- A Grigri is OK, IF you already have one. If you don't, IMO, you'd be much better off with a Rig. The Rig has a work position lock-off and the Grigri doesn't.
- The Rig was intended from the start for work positioning, ascending/descending, the Grigri was not.
- The Rig is rated for 330 lbs (EN12841); 330 lbs/650 feet (EN341) the Grigri is not.
- Petzl's updated tech notes only mentions ascending/descending on the Grigri as a secondary function. It is primarily a belay device - that's what it was designed for.
- Lastly, there's the liability issue. If you were injured, questions might be raised as to why you were using a device that was not intended to be used in that application. That wouldn't even be an issue with a Rig.
There's no question that a Grigri will work for descending and ascending - I've used a Grigri many times in a RADS but that was for rec climbing. I'm not a pro-arbo, but I can and do read the manufacturer's recommendations and guidelines - IMO the Grigr is not a good choice for 'work' applications.
[ QUOTE ]
But, this would be soooo much simplier if you were descending on a Rig instead of a rack.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about a Gri-Gri?
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with what moss said, but would add these thoughts:
- A Grigri is OK, IF you already have one. If you don't, IMO, you'd be much better off with a Rig. The Rig has a work position lock-off and the Grigri doesn't.
- The Rig was intended from the start for work positioning, ascending/descending, the Grigri was not.
- The Rig is rated for 330 lbs (EN12841); 330 lbs/650 feet (EN341) the Grigri is not.
- Petzl's updated tech notes only mentions ascending/descending on the Grigri as a secondary function. It is primarily a belay device - that's what it was designed for.
- Lastly, there's the liability issue. If you were injured, questions might be raised as to why you were using a device that was not intended to be used in that application. That wouldn't even be an issue with a Rig.
There's no question that a Grigri will work for descending and ascending - I've used a Grigri many times in a RADS but that was for rec climbing. I'm not a pro-arbo, but I can and do read the manufacturer's recommendations and guidelines - IMO the Grigr is not a good choice for 'work' applications.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
I hear you Ron but I also know that some of the most skilled and experienced big tree climbers in the world having been using the Grigri for many years. There's a certain point where you have to take the manufacturers recommendation with a grain of salt, at least where a device has been proven in the field over many thousands of feet of rappel in the most extreme tree climbing conditions. Then again I thought the Unicender rendered the discussion moot I haven't tried the Uni yet so I can't offer an opinion.
Grigri is defacto locked off when the handle is released. I suspect the Rig was designed to meet European high angle work climbing regulations.
It's not clear to me that Keith is intending to climb in an arborist work capacity. I'm not a work climber so I'm only commenting on the characteristics of devices I've climbed on, not an their suitability for a work environment. Most arb climbers that I've climbed SRT with use an F8 with no backup for SRT rappel, whatever works for an experienced climber is good by me.
Ok, I'm retreating to the rec forum where I belong, see ya!
-moss
I haven't tried the Uni yet so I can't offer an opinion.Grigri is defacto locked off when the handle is released. I suspect the Rig was designed to meet European high angle work climbing regulations.
It's not clear to me that Keith is intending to climb in an arborist work capacity. I'm not a work climber so I'm only commenting on the characteristics of devices I've climbed on, not an their suitability for a work environment. Most arb climbers that I've climbed SRT with use an F8 with no backup for SRT rappel, whatever works for an experienced climber is good by me.
Ok, I'm retreating to the rec forum where I belong, see ya!
-moss
- Location
- Chattanooga
moss
I didn't intend to give the impression that the Grigri shouldn't be used. I just think there is now a better choice. The Rig was made for work; the Grigri for fun.
I even said, "...A Grigri is OK, IF you already have one. If you don't, IMO, you'd be much better off with a Rig. The Rig has a work position lock-off and the Grigri doesn't.", etc.
I like having the lock-off; it just seems like a good thing. I've had Grigris not be quite where I expected them after getting slack in the line. The lock-off keeps the Rig or I'D positioned.
I didn't intend to give the impression that the Grigri shouldn't be used. I just think there is now a better choice. The Rig was made for work; the Grigri for fun.
I even said, "...A Grigri is OK, IF you already have one. If you don't, IMO, you'd be much better off with a Rig. The Rig has a work position lock-off and the Grigri doesn't.", etc.
I like having the lock-off; it just seems like a good thing. I've had Grigris not be quite where I expected them after getting slack in the line. The lock-off keeps the Rig or I'D positioned.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
Ron
I didn't intend to give the impression that the Grigri shouldn't be used. I just think there is now a better choice. The Rig was made for work; the Grigri for fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was in a rock gym last night, realized that the Grigri in a belay capacity gets beat on day in and day out by zillions of gym climbers, it's tough device. Tree climbers I mentioned who've used it for years as preferred rappel device are pros, not rec climbers. No doubt the Rig is an improvement but it's bigger, heavier and more expensive. I'm primarily a woods climber who carries everything on my back so gear size and weight matters. I could go lighter than a Grigri (F8 etc.) but it falls into my sweetspot for overall utility vs. weight.
[ QUOTE ]
Ron
I like having the lock-off; it just seems like a good thing. I've had Grigris not be quite where I expected them after getting slack in the line. The lock-off keeps the Rig or I'D positioned.
[/ QUOTE ]
If a climber puts their feet on the tree and slacks the rope during rappel on a Grigri they definitely have to take up the slack through the device and load it before continuing rappel. It's the same as DdRT hitch climbing, you don't jump off a limb without tightening up the slack. Lock-off is cool but a little redundant for an experienced climber who should and likely will always take up slack though any device or hitch before making the next move.
I can imagine a quick and simple lock-off would be a good thing for industrial climbing situations where a climber is going to stay in a particular position for a long time performing a task (welding, window washing etc.). With a non-locking device the tail can be used to tie a lock above the device, plenty of info available with a search on "locking off a Figure 8". or "locking off a rappel rack" etc.
As always individual climbing style and requirements are the final decision maker for gear choice.
-moss
Ron
I didn't intend to give the impression that the Grigri shouldn't be used. I just think there is now a better choice. The Rig was made for work; the Grigri for fun.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was in a rock gym last night, realized that the Grigri in a belay capacity gets beat on day in and day out by zillions of gym climbers, it's tough device. Tree climbers I mentioned who've used it for years as preferred rappel device are pros, not rec climbers. No doubt the Rig is an improvement but it's bigger, heavier and more expensive. I'm primarily a woods climber who carries everything on my back so gear size and weight matters. I could go lighter than a Grigri (F8 etc.) but it falls into my sweetspot for overall utility vs. weight.
[ QUOTE ]
Ron
I like having the lock-off; it just seems like a good thing. I've had Grigris not be quite where I expected them after getting slack in the line. The lock-off keeps the Rig or I'D positioned.
[/ QUOTE ]
If a climber puts their feet on the tree and slacks the rope during rappel on a Grigri they definitely have to take up the slack through the device and load it before continuing rappel. It's the same as DdRT hitch climbing, you don't jump off a limb without tightening up the slack. Lock-off is cool but a little redundant for an experienced climber who should and likely will always take up slack though any device or hitch before making the next move.
I can imagine a quick and simple lock-off would be a good thing for industrial climbing situations where a climber is going to stay in a particular position for a long time performing a task (welding, window washing etc.). With a non-locking device the tail can be used to tie a lock above the device, plenty of info available with a search on "locking off a Figure 8". or "locking off a rappel rack" etc.
As always individual climbing style and requirements are the final decision maker for gear choice.
-moss
- Location
- Chattanooga
Of course the Grigri is a tough device; no one said otherwise.
Work positioning is work positioning, be it washing a window, stopping to photograph something or trimming or cutting a tree limb.
What I was referring to about the lock off is not jumping off a limb, but stretching up to quickly do something and getting slack in the rope in the process. I think it'd probably be rare for a Grigri to move in a situation like that, but the quick lock off on the Rig sure is comforting for any kind of positioning.
And yes there are ways to lock off Grigris, figure 8s and racks by tying them off; then untying them to release them. There's a way to lock off a Rig too - just pull the handle down. There's a way to unlock it too - just move the handle back up.
Work positioning is work positioning, be it washing a window, stopping to photograph something or trimming or cutting a tree limb.
What I was referring to about the lock off is not jumping off a limb, but stretching up to quickly do something and getting slack in the rope in the process. I think it'd probably be rare for a Grigri to move in a situation like that, but the quick lock off on the Rig sure is comforting for any kind of positioning.
And yes there are ways to lock off Grigris, figure 8s and racks by tying them off; then untying them to release them. There's a way to lock off a Rig too - just pull the handle down. There's a way to unlock it too - just move the handle back up.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
I know this is cheating, but over the past 2 months I've had the pleasure of using a unicender. When ropewalking, I've been using it as the upper ascender. I attach it to me via a whoopie sling girth hitched to the Uni.
Man, coming down is a breeze. I can reach down, unlock the 2 foot ascenders and I'm ready to descend. I usually leave the chest roller installed on the line unless I'm going to have to go out on a limb or something. But for an up/down, I can leave it in and save a step
I think the quickest lock for a gri-gri is to put a slip knot underneath.
love
nick
Man, coming down is a breeze. I can reach down, unlock the 2 foot ascenders and I'm ready to descend. I usually leave the chest roller installed on the line unless I'm going to have to go out on a limb or something. But for an up/down, I can leave it in and save a step
I think the quickest lock for a gri-gri is to put a slip knot underneath.
love
nick
Gerald_Beranek
New member
- Location
- Ft. Bragg, Ca.
That's not cheating, Nick, that's just smart.
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
If DMM made more carabiners that locked on a ring like the Revolver- Started by Bill_N
- Replies: 5
-
-
-
-
