bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
Great point Paul!
CT hand ascender?
- Thread starter banjo
- Start date
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
If toothed ascenders are used properly they'll be on a true kernmantle rope. If an excessive load is applied the teeth/cam are designed to shread/strip the sheath/kern but not cut the core/mantel.
Cammed ascenders like Gibb's and MicroCenders have had a reputation for chopping ropes. The newer cam profile designs has reduced this a lot.
Cammed ascenders like Gibb's and MicroCenders have had a reputation for chopping ropes. The newer cam profile designs has reduced this a lot.
- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
id rather have my ascender slip a bit then grab. i dont want any of the above happening!
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
I SRT ascend virtually every tree I climb (or dont climb as it were) as I use a Wraptor. I know from personal experience that sometimes slack can be introduced to the system even though we always do a 2 man jump test on the ascent line. My worst to date was a sucker breaking that was 5 feet above my target crotch which resulted in a 10' drop...... If I had been on one of those toothed ascenders I might not have survived. As it was the Wraptor just reved up and then slowed down again, I literally didnt even feel when the slack took up due to the 7% elongation of the Wraptor line. Had to clean the shorts out though. I for one dont think death should be the penalty for not seeing a sucker.....
[/ QUOTE ]
That's brutal, you do the 2-man dynamic loading test and still get a breakout while you're on rope. I've had it happen only once while I was doing a bounce test, just put my butt on the ground, no harm done.
Is it a time issue when you're setting the line? When I'm woods rec climbing (what I do the most) I don't have the "time is money" pressure so I inspect real carefully with binoculars (if needed) to verify the rope isn't over something sketchy like a sucker or dead stuff above where I want the rope to be. I believe with due diligence you can reduce the possibility to very low percentage chance of breakout. When I start ascent I want very high confidence that no breakout will occur.
I guess I'm asking what prevents you from doing a satisfactory visual inspection along with your load test?
-AJ
I SRT ascend virtually every tree I climb (or dont climb as it were) as I use a Wraptor. I know from personal experience that sometimes slack can be introduced to the system even though we always do a 2 man jump test on the ascent line. My worst to date was a sucker breaking that was 5 feet above my target crotch which resulted in a 10' drop...... If I had been on one of those toothed ascenders I might not have survived. As it was the Wraptor just reved up and then slowed down again, I literally didnt even feel when the slack took up due to the 7% elongation of the Wraptor line. Had to clean the shorts out though. I for one dont think death should be the penalty for not seeing a sucker.....
[/ QUOTE ]
That's brutal, you do the 2-man dynamic loading test and still get a breakout while you're on rope. I've had it happen only once while I was doing a bounce test, just put my butt on the ground, no harm done.
Is it a time issue when you're setting the line? When I'm woods rec climbing (what I do the most) I don't have the "time is money" pressure so I inspect real carefully with binoculars (if needed) to verify the rope isn't over something sketchy like a sucker or dead stuff above where I want the rope to be. I believe with due diligence you can reduce the possibility to very low percentage chance of breakout. When I start ascent I want very high confidence that no breakout will occur.
I guess I'm asking what prevents you from doing a satisfactory visual inspection along with your load test?
-AJ
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
[ QUOTE ]
id rather have my ascender slip a bit then grab. i dont want any of the above happening!
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I use a custom rigged Microcender for my ascender, last test data I looked at showed that it slips a relatively short distance then grabs with minimal rope or device damage. Tom mentioned the Microcender chopping the rope, I haven't seen any data showing that result.
So many variables with a toothed cam on a breakout. Usually you can expect some branch flex and load absorption if the rope's over multiple branches/limbs. However if the rope is above one heavy limb and it's also over a hidden sucker ten feet above the target limb, then there's the possibility of serious shock load on breakout.
I would conclude that with a super distributed TIP (rope over many branches in the crown) safety factor is greatly increased. If the rope is only over one or a small number of limbs you have to inspect very carefully to verify no hidden breakout potential.
-AJ
id rather have my ascender slip a bit then grab. i dont want any of the above happening!
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. I use a custom rigged Microcender for my ascender, last test data I looked at showed that it slips a relatively short distance then grabs with minimal rope or device damage. Tom mentioned the Microcender chopping the rope, I haven't seen any data showing that result.
So many variables with a toothed cam on a breakout. Usually you can expect some branch flex and load absorption if the rope's over multiple branches/limbs. However if the rope is above one heavy limb and it's also over a hidden sucker ten feet above the target limb, then there's the possibility of serious shock load on breakout.
I would conclude that with a super distributed TIP (rope over many branches in the crown) safety factor is greatly increased. If the rope is only over one or a small number of limbs you have to inspect very carefully to verify no hidden breakout potential.
-AJ
Moss, today I climbed (well Wraptored ) 6 large trees, mostly going after hangers and 1 to get a high TIP to work out a hung up tree. I am fairly proficient with the bigshot but will definitely take what I get sometimes and think nothing of riding up on a sucker if it has a good crotch a couple feet below it. No its not ideal to take a 4 foot drop but as I said you really dont feel it on the Wraptor line and yes I accept the risks as I have a busy schedule and want to get done.....
I can never understand how we can do a 2 person jump on a rope and then a sucker will let go with just me going on up on it???
I can never understand how we can do a 2 person jump on a rope and then a sucker will let go with just me going on up on it???
cerviarborist
Very stable member
- Location
- Florida, USA
The grip is different, the cam is way different, and the frame is stamped and formed differently. I think it would be better to contact the company to find the specific ratings, rather than assume they'd be the same as for the Petzl, although they might turn out to be similar.
I'd want to do my diligence before hanging by an assumption.
I'd want to do my diligence before hanging by an assumption.
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
[ QUOTE ]
I am fairly proficient with the bigshot but will definitely take what I get sometimes and think nothing of riding up on a sucker if it has a good crotch a couple feet below it. No its not ideal to take a 4 foot drop but as I said you really dont feel it on the Wraptor line and yes I accept the risks as I have a busy schedule and want to get done.....
I can never understand how we can do a 2 person jump on a rope and then a sucker will let go with just me going on up on it???
[/ QUOTE ]
I do the same thing as well Paul and have only had one break out on me so far and took a 10' drop. Luckily I was already 30' up and there were no branches below me.
We did a pull test as well. My guess is that it was the repetitive bouncing on the climbing line as I was ascending that kept giving the sucker “mini shock loads” until it finally broke.
I am fairly proficient with the bigshot but will definitely take what I get sometimes and think nothing of riding up on a sucker if it has a good crotch a couple feet below it. No its not ideal to take a 4 foot drop but as I said you really dont feel it on the Wraptor line and yes I accept the risks as I have a busy schedule and want to get done.....
I can never understand how we can do a 2 person jump on a rope and then a sucker will let go with just me going on up on it???
[/ QUOTE ]
I do the same thing as well Paul and have only had one break out on me so far and took a 10' drop. Luckily I was already 30' up and there were no branches below me.
We did a pull test as well. My guess is that it was the repetitive bouncing on the climbing line as I was ascending that kept giving the sucker “mini shock loads” until it finally broke.
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
Good point Paul, I forgot that you were on the Wraptor.
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