deevo
Been here a while
- Location
- Horseshoe Valley, Ontario, Canada
Very easy for spliced eyes, we don’t use sewn eyes.
Crane accident...
- Thread starter Mark Chisholm
- Start date
Reach
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Atglen, PA
As promised, a rather poor photograph of the contract we sign with our crane service: 
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
Reach
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Atglen, PA
I didn’t photograph that... It pretty much just has lines for property address, date, start and end times, signatures at start and end.
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
That is what I thought. The last time I used him was the first time he had the paperwork for us. I didn't really look at it, just signed.
I trust Jerry enough not to screw me.
Reach
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Atglen, PA
I’m right there with you. I might have read that once, but I too trust Jerry more than I care about the paperwork.
So here is how i read it. The crane op isnt responsible for anything unless its his sole negligence. Here is the argument. The crane op told him to lower the sling, not important, the main point here is was he negligent? I would submit that on a 20ft log slinging it too low to cause a flip is way off and totally negligent bordering on incompetent, the crane op signed off on the sling location.The climber totally blowing it doesnt erase the crane ops negligence. Even if this contract was in play with this accident the crane co would have liability IMO.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
“He said to move it lower a couple of times and then said ok. He then told the climber where to cut it. When it was cut the piece flipped quickly and struck the climber and killed him.”
The crane operator rejected the climbers rigging several times and indicated where to make the cut which places increased liability on the CO. It’s not clear if the tree co owner and climber are one in the same. I think they would allocate a percentage of the liability on them and more so if the on the company owner as they are the one with control over the job. Remember, it’s the employers responsibility to provide a safe workplace. In sub contractor situations it is about who has control over the job site.
Until we can review the investigation report to learn more about each person involved and their level of competency, it’s hard to clearly define who is liable or how liability will be allocated.
It’s is a horrible tragedy made worse by the fact that it was completely preventable.
The crane operator rejected the climbers rigging several times and indicated where to make the cut which places increased liability on the CO. It’s not clear if the tree co owner and climber are one in the same. I think they would allocate a percentage of the liability on them and more so if the on the company owner as they are the one with control over the job. Remember, it’s the employers responsibility to provide a safe workplace. In sub contractor situations it is about who has control over the job site.
Until we can review the investigation report to learn more about each person involved and their level of competency, it’s hard to clearly define who is liable or how liability will be allocated.
It’s is a horrible tragedy made worse by the fact that it was completely preventable.
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Sounds negligent to me. Flipping a 20ft log means the sling was near the middle. He had the upper 10 ft of stick to work with and he chose that far down? This crane op should never touch another tree.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
What this does is force a review of the contract to determine if there was any breach of any clause and what remedies are included or does it constitute such a breach as to render the contract null and void. The remedy in the indemnification clause is limited to the lessors liability insurance (this is why insurance coverage is increasing. And would require a COI to determine its adequacy). The competent operation by lessee clause places a burden on the tree co to provide all that is necessary and be able to show that the crew met the standards.
While you may trust your crane guy, he’s protecting himself with this contract for when things go south. If it were you in this situation and now your family left to deal with the fallout what challenges are you leaving them?
Well crafted contracts are meant for the bad times not the good.
I think no matter how you word a contract the situation with crane work is such that collaboration between climber and crane op is so closely connected that separating liability is tough. It has already been stated that contracts arent always ironclad. The fact that a crane was involved, no matter the wording of the contract, puts the the crane in the line of fire. It seems impossible to word a contract that says the crane co has zero liabilty no matter what happens. The contact presented here is about as wordy and well crafted as i have seen, but still has an opening. " sole negligence". IMO that doesnt mean it has to be all his fault just that he displayed some negligence. We can reduce it down to the precise moment the crane op cabled up, he was solely at the controls of the crane and technically the cut was done. The climbers negligence doesnt remove the crane ops negligence. Could be argued here the crane op displayed more negligence.
Using large equipment lifting heavy loads, often asymmetrical within ft of a person in a precarious position that cannot move much sometimes with the operator blind, rigged using experience and estimation, weights being estimated, and with a running chain saw is dangerous business at very least. This industry is getting so safe its dangerous. When you bury a saw into some big wood you better know what you are doing. When i am in the tree or on the job site for that matter, i work with the crane op as if my life is in the balance.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
That’s what it all comes down to, a life in the balance. This reinforces the teachable moment from this tragedy, make those decisions collaboratively and proceed only when everyone is confident that the outcome is what is expected. A life is always in the balance and that is never to be lost sight of.
The op was asking about legal liability to which it can only be said is unclear and now a matter for the courts to decide. A tragic situation made worse for those who survive him and now need to pick up the pieces and move on.
The op was asking about legal liability to which it can only be said is unclear and now a matter for the courts to decide. A tragic situation made worse for those who survive him and now need to pick up the pieces and move on.
cerviarborist
Very stable member
- Location
- Florida, USA
Given the spelling errors in that contract, I wouldn't bet the rent that it was drawn up by an ace contract attorney.
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
Any more word on how this all played out in the end?
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
Not that I've heard.
allmark
Participating member
If the crane operator requires competent and experienced personnel.........Qualified riggers and signal person per his contract, but fails to verify that, I would think that makes them negligent as well.
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